#662 – The non-Stinky Car

Chris Gammell: This is The Amp Hour Podcast. Released March 20th, 2024. Episode 662. The non-stinky car.

Dave Jones: Welcome to the Amp Hour. I'm Dave Jones from the EEV blog.

Chris Gammell: And I'm Chris Camel of Contextual Electronics.

Dave Jones: Now a proud EV owner.

Chris Gammell: I am.

Dave Jones: One of us, one of us, one of us.

Chris Gammell: I mean, I was actually trying to think about, like, when was, like, the zeitgeist shift when it was, like, I don't know, I looked around today, I was at, like, an event today, and there was just EVs everywhere. I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm just, I'm very trailing edge, not trailing edge, but, like, you know, I'm middle of the back.

Dave Jones: Yeah, but unfortunately, you're coming down the downside at the moment because don't you know EVs aren't popular anymore?

Chris Gammell: Well, that would fit the trends of the rest of my life.

Dave Jones: Yeah, the trend is that, like, all these automotive manufacturers now going, oh, no, we don't really want to go down the EV path anymore.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, no, that's a good point. Huge companies. The thing that I ended up getting was a discontinued vehicle.

Dave Jones: Oh, it's actually a discontinued model, is it? Okay.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, they're very likely going to bring it. Yeah, so I got a Chevy Bolt 2023 1LT. So, basically, almost a two-year-old model because I think they're already into 25s on some models, or maybe they're… Oh, God. I don't know. Yeah, they always do that super early. Yeah. But, like, you know, super simple, bottom line kind of thing. But, like, yeah, great range. And, like, so they've basically discontinued the line Chevy has. Oh, okay.

Dave Jones: So, they don't make the Chevy Bolt anymore.

Chris Gammell: That's right. Oh, okay. And also, to disambiguate, I think a really terrible naming choice, Chevy also used to make a Volt with a V.

Chris Gammell: Yes. With a V. That's right. That was an early hybrid, yes. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: And that was, yeah, so that was like…

Chris Gammell: That was 10 years ago plus or something. Yeah. Yeah, that was a long time.

Chris Gammell: And it was, I think it was actually electric motor in that. And then there was a very small battery pack with only, like, 20 miles range. But then the internal combustion engine just charged the battery. Charges the battery.

Chris Gammell: I think that might have been the go for that one. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Ring to bell.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. So, then that's long gone. And then the Bolt's been all electric. And now it's discontinued. But they said, basically, they're just, like, refactored. They're probably going to reintroduce it in 25 with, like, the new skateboard design that's going on all the Chevys.

Dave Jones: Right. Okay. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: So, very likely to be…

Dave Jones: For those who don't know, the skateboard that you're talking about is basically… You build the chassis. It's basically a battery with wheels. And then you build the car around that. So, it's a common platform you can use for different models, I guess. And you just build the car around that. So, yeah.

Chris Gammell: Right. Right, right, right. And I think there are new battery chemistry, new controls, whatever. So, then, yeah. And then they add all the fancy kit around it, like the entertainment and, you know…

Dave Jones: Right.

Chris Gammell: Whatever the body's going to be, you know, they all end up looking very similar. But then I think they have different options within that battery family. You know, maybe they double stack the batteries. Right. Or they have different motor sizing, whatever. It is interesting because, like, you look at, like, kind of the new, more modern electric vehicle manufacturers. They seem to be very kind of, not one note, but, like, they… Because they're often, like, Tesla's very vertically integrated.

Dave Jones: Yep.

Chris Gammell: There aren't… There's only four models. And even that took a long time to get there. Right? It's not like they're…

Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly.

Chris Gammell: Like, Chevy has different brands. Even within Chrysler, Chevy, I think it is. Yeah. They have different sub-brands and things. They have different sub-brands, right? Yeah. Yeah. They're huge.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm chasing my train, Dave. Yeah.

Dave Jones: How much boot space? How many liters? That's all I care about. How much shit can I carry?

Chris Gammell: Oh, that is not… Dave, number one… This may be a surprising thing for… Number one thing for me was how do the car seats fit in there is actually my current life stage right there. Right. The child seats. Right there. Yep. Yeah. That's all I really care about. And I'm not driving much. I mean, I'm not going to speak in freedom units this entire time. Right. But I only really drive, like… I'm mostly just on daycare, pick up and drop off. Like, that's pretty much the driver of a lot of my stuff, which is like maybe five miles each trip. So, like 10 miles a day. And this thing has a 259-mile range. Oh, range. Yeah. Right. So… Yes.

Dave Jones: Because you all work from home.

Chris Gammell: So… Yeah, I work from home. Exactly. I take the kids to daycare. I come back to home, you know. I kind of feel guilty about it sometimes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Okay. Well, you need to get an office like me. You can sort of separate. I really don't. No. I don't. Okay. I mean…

Chris Gammell: No. I love it here. It's great. All right. Everything's here and, you know… My kitchen's here. I don't… My garbage room is just my garbage.

Dave Jones: Yeah, but you don't have a dumpster room. Like I've got. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: I mean… I mean, you go to an office but then you don't actually… I mean, you like talk to people but like you're not there to see people, right?

Dave Jones: No. No. I see people in the lift and stuff. Doesn't that count? Doesn't that count for social interaction?

Chris Gammell: I mean… Yes, it does. I guess it maybe is more than I have.

Dave Jones: Right.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. So, yeah. I look at people walking their dogs out the window. That's true. Does that count?

Speaker ?: Right.

Dave Jones: That's… Yeah, true. I am currently more social than you are. There's something.

Chris Gammell: Wow. Didn't expect to have that today. Yeah.

Dave Jones: There you go.

Chris Gammell: There's the low point.

Dave Jones: Oh, boy.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: So, how does this thing drive? You actually like it? Do you enjoy it?

Chris Gammell: It's great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have very few reference points. So, I have bought one other car myself. This is the second car I've ever owned. Right. Now in my 40s. And the last car I bought was 20 years ago. And so… And then I did eight years without a car because I was in Chicago. Like, you don't need a… You shouldn't have… No. No. You shouldn't have a car in the middle of Chicago. Having a car in Chicago is kind of a waste. It's suicide, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah. I haven't had a car in a while. And it's lovely to get back to having a car. Cool. Yeah. The only thing I'm worried about is… I was charging the car the other day. And it's on the same circuit as… It's not a dedicated circuit. I use just the 110 charger. The slow charger.

Dave Jones: You're just using the overnight…

Chris Gammell: Which is fine. Trickle charger. Yeah.

Dave Jones: If you're only doing 10, 20 miles a day… Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's more than enough just plugging the slow charger overnight.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. Easy. I am excited that the… So, the charger that comes with it, it has a 240 converter. I don't know if that's a… Is that a normal thing? I don't know if your car… Or you guys are 240. Never mind. You guys are 240 to start with. I got there. I got there. So, in the US, at least, I'm not sure if it's a standard thing. But it has just a secondary plug. It's a plug pack, basically, like you have for your laptop.

Chris Gammell: Okay.

Chris Gammell: Yep. And it has a 240 attachment that you can just plug into a 240 outlet. Right. But I don't have one of those installed. Yeah.

Dave Jones: But that's still only the same… I mean, to us, that is a trickle charge. Like, 240 doesn't mean anything to me. You've got to tell me the ampage. Is it like a 15 amp outlet or something?

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Right. It's the 11 kilowatt max. So, whatever that is.

Dave Jones: Oh, it's 11 kilowatt. Oh, okay. Right. Okay. So, that is a serious high power.

Chris Gammell: Technically, it's a level two. Yeah, it's a level two charger. Okay.

Dave Jones: That would… Yes. That is a level two charger.

Chris Gammell: You are correct. Yes. Exactly. But it is with the plug pack. So, if you have the right… And it's weird here in the US, too, because we have different plug types for 240 based on the amperage. Yeah. And I think this is basically what I usually refer to as the dryer vent. The dryer plug. Right. The dryer port. Because that's like tons of power, right? Yeah.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Got it. Okay.

Chris Gammell: So, it is capable of doing that.

Dave Jones: You can pull a line, like a circuit for it?

Chris Gammell: Well, that's what I was getting at. So, I had my thing trickle charging plugged in, whatever. And then the garage door is on the same… The garage opener is on the same circuit. Right. Yeah. I popped the breaker because I was like…

Dave Jones: Just by opening the garage door.

Chris Gammell: Well, I was charging at the max level. Yeah. So, I was charging at 110 volts at 12 amps max. There's like a switch. You can do 8 amps, 12 amps. And then, yeah, I think the draw… I think there's two things. One, I think the draw… The instantaneous current when I was turning on the garage door motor… Yeah. …might have made it pop. And I think the breaker… That circuit has had a lot of problems. And then, the breaker itself, I think, is actually just on the edge of like failing. Like maybe there's oxidation or something like that.

Dave Jones: You yanks are so weird. I mean, 110 volts at 12 amps. That is only 1300 watts.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: Our standard outlet here is 2400 watts. Like everyday outlet is 2400 watts. That's just… I don't understand a 1.3 kilowatt outlet. That's just… That's not a thing here.

Chris Gammell: Wait, what did you say it was? What was the…

Dave Jones: Well, you said 110 volts, right? Times 12 amps.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. No, no. So, the breaker is rated at 20 amps.

Dave Jones: Oh, okay. Right.

Chris Gammell: So, there's different size breakers too like you guys have, right? So, the… Yeah, yeah.

Dave Jones: But I'm talking in terms of wattage. It's only 1300 watts. Jeez.

Chris Gammell: Well, not if it's 20 amps. Well, not… Okay. It's a 20 amp breaker. So, that's… Okay.

Dave Jones: So, it's 20 amp breaker.

Chris Gammell: That's 2400, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so, the standard… Like a standard lighting breaker… This is me. I have never, ever read the Nash Electric Code, NEC. So, take all this with a grain of salt. This is my anecdotal evidence looking at breakers. But the standard lighting breaker is like 15 amps. Right. Then some of the upsized ones, I think…

Dave Jones: That's a lot for a light breaker. Wow.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: I think ours are like eight or something.

Chris Gammell: Okay.

Dave Jones: Pretty much for a light circuit.

Chris Gammell: I mean, so everything… Double everything, right? So, that's actually the same. It would be 16, right?

Dave Jones: In terms of power, yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, and then some of the breakers, I think you need to have the upsized Romex, like the thicker wire, basically. Okay. And then you could do a 20 amp breaker. Right. And then if you're past that, then you're into the double breakers. Like, there's no 30 amp breaker that goes onto a single phase. Okay. Right. If you upsize from that, I think you switch to 40 amps. Yep. And maybe there's even switches to 30 amps, but then you have to have two phase, basically.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you've got to go to your 240 volt feet instead of anything high power. Yep.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, exactly.

Dave Jones: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: And so… I think… So, I need to call an electrician. I just… I'm very… I've touched a bus bar by accident before. I'm not… Yeah, right.

Dave Jones: You're scared of mains the same way I am, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We just…

Chris Gammell: It's a healthier fear where you are than where I am, but I'm just a chicken, like you said. Yeah. Yeah. It's… Yeah. So, anyways, I've got to call them about this thing. I just want to get it resolved correctly. And they've got to pull permits here if you're doing a certain amount of work. So, I'm just going to pay through the nose and have an outlet installed. So…

Dave Jones: Bend over and take it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yep.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. You know what? I'll go earn it back making tiny electronics. Right. Right.

Dave Jones: Oh, boy. So, you're enjoying the ride? You're enjoying the Vita? You're enjoying the silentness? The zero exhaust? Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, it's magic. Yeah, getting back to it. I mean, I was telling my wife about what you had said about, like, our previous car, which we still have, is the stinky car, right? Like you had said.

Dave Jones: The stinky car. Yeah. We literally call ours the stinky car. Yeah, the stinky car. Because that's the first thing I noticed when I got an EV is that, oh, there's no smell. Well, you know, because you tend to tune out the smell, right? So, you get used to it. And then you go and drive the old stinky car again. The first thing you get, you turn on the, you know, the wind's blowing the wrong way and just wasps through the cabin with all the, you know, exhaustion. Yeah. Because you start the car up, you're still trying to get kids in and everything. So, it's still pumping out the crap out the back and the doors are open. And yeah, the cabin's full of bloody crap. So, yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: It's crazy.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. And it actually gets cold here. So, then you really see it when it's cold here. Okay. Yeah, yeah. You really see that exhaust, right? Yeah. Not that it's smoke. That is not a thing here. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, boy. You see your dashboard melting. Yep. Yep. Oh, boy. You guys didn't have any fires this year, right? Like big fires like you had?

Dave Jones: No, no. Not really, no.

Chris Gammell: Good. Knock on wood. Knock on wood. Yep. Knock on wood. Yeah, that's great. Yep. Cool. That's great. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been very pleasant. The one pedal driving is like a thing. I don't know if that's a thing on every car, but I've, I've getting used to that. That's cool. Yes.

Dave Jones: Does yours have the flappy paddle brakes? The flappy paddle? No, I don't think so. No? No, I don't think so. Mine's got the flappy paddle. So, I can brake by, with my fingers, by braking on the paddle on the steering wheel. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: You know, there's a button that has a battery symbol on it. I wonder if it's that.

Dave Jones: Right. Okay.

Chris Gammell: If it's like, to like, put it back in the battery.

Dave Jones: Okay.

Chris Gammell: Huh. I should try that. I should drive this car more, I think. Right.

Dave Jones: Yeah. So, I mostly try and drive our EV with just my, just the accelerator pedal. And of course, if you take your foot off the accelerator, then it's regen braking. Yeah. But then the flappy paddle can give extra regen braking. So, I can, you know, if I use my fingers to, on the steering wheel to like slow down or stop at the lights and things. And I can almost drive everywhere with just the flappy paddle. I don't touch the brake pedal usually.

Chris Gammell: That's great.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Speaker ?: Yep.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. So, overall, very, very positive experience. I'm excited for this future. I was trying to tell my mom. I was just telling my folks. And they were asking, like, well, should we get one? I was like, I don't know. Like, I feel like it's just a pretty easy thing to do. Like, plug-in hybrid is like my, I think, very easy suggestion these days. I hope we see more.

Dave Jones: It totally depends on your lifestyle. I mean, if you don't have the lifestyle to support it, don't buy an EV. They're not for everyone. But I don't know anyone who bought an EV and then just goes, oh, I regret buying this EV. It's a piece of shit. You know, it's like, you know.

Chris Gammell: Well, that's why I said, like, plug-in hybrid. I feel like it's like kind of the best of all worlds.

Dave Jones: It's probably the best of all worlds. And that's why we were talking about the automotive manufacturers before, how they're not going away from EVs. They're just going away from pure EVs. They're now going, no, the hybrid market is the go. Bigger for now. Yeah, for now, right?

Chris Gammell: I think infrastructure is building out.

Speaker ?: Oh, yeah.

Chris Gammell: No, totally.

Dave Jones: I think in 30 years' time, everyone's going to be driving a pure EV. Yeah. You know.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Most likely. There's funky designs out there, too. I'm starting to see, like, some of the cars. Like, Ioniq 6. I know you have an Ioniq, right?

Dave Jones: I have a 2020 Ioniq, yeah, which is pretty boring looking. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Well, but the 6 is weird looking. Yeah. The 6. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Even the 5 was – the 5 had that 80s look, had that 80s, iconic 80s look. Yeah. Yeah. It was – yeah, it was something. So, yeah. I would love to get one of those Aptira little –

Chris Gammell: Tira.

Dave Jones: It's a pure EV. It's a – it's like a – it's a futuristic – and it's solar. It has solar on the roof and everything. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: It looks like an airplane without the wings, basically. Yes.

Dave Jones: It looks like an airplane without wings. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I would love to get it. Interesting. And, like, it's cheap. It starts from $20,000 or something. And they claim, oh, you'll never have to charge it because it's got solar panels. But I've actually done a video on that doing some calculations. It's like, well, it's only got an 800-watt solar panel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, if you're driving every day, good luck. You'll be sitting there for three days trying to recharge you.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. There was a Marquez Brownlee video. He did a review of a Prius that has a thing built in. And he was going through some of the math on that.

Dave Jones: Oh, it's tiny. The Prius one's tiny, I think. Oh, it's tiny.

Chris Gammell: It's like 100 watts or something. Yeah, but it does have – I mean, like – yeah, okay, yes. But it's not going to, like, do that. But it's going to – I don't know. I'll link the video in. It was good.

Dave Jones: Yeah, it might give you an extra five miles a day maybe, you know. That's a big deal for me. Right, okay. Yeah, well, exactly right, yeah. Yeah, once again, total lifestyle thing, you know. Yeah, right. But then if you've got a power pole in your front yard or a trees or something like that that shade it, you know, like, you just – yeah, it's just dumb.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, totally. So, yeah. It does feel a little – yeah, it's a little gimmicky maybe, but, yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.

Dave Jones: No, but I think every EV should have, like, at least a solar roof on it just for – just because you can and you should. I mean, if you've got an EV that can be, you know, slow charge via a solar panel, why not?

Chris Gammell: Yeah, I mean, like, you never ever would be stuck – you would just be stuck for a little while, right?

Dave Jones: Well, you might be stuck for a day in theory. Yeah, right, right. You know? Yeah, but –

Chris Gammell: Yeah, that's true. I guess if you broke down at night. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, no, no. What would you do is you get your phone flashlight out?

Dave Jones: No, if you've only got an 800-watt panel, right? Strap your flashlight to the top and now keep going.

Chris Gammell: Boom. Free energy, Dave. Free energy. Free energy. Yeah, that's it.

Dave Jones: Oh, boy. So does yours – I asked you this before, but you didn't know. It doesn't have vehicle to grid. I don't think it does. I had a quick search on it. I looked it up. It did not. Okay, it doesn't. Yeah. So it does not even have an adapter to give you, like, a 240-volt power out? No. No, that's right. Bummer.

Chris Gammell: And I think they said the 20 – when that gets released, they think it will.

Dave Jones: Okay, yes. Yeah. Because if I bought another EV, I would definitely make sure that it has vehicle to grid. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: I was surprised the Nissan Leaf, you know. Right, right, right. You want, like, a backup for your house, right?

Dave Jones: Just if you have – you know, yeah, if you have a house backup or even if you're going somewhere, you're camping or something, you know, you've got, like, a 240-volt outlet there. You can run all your stuff from your car battery, you know? It just makes sense.

Chris Gammell: Netflix. There's an episode of Parks and Rec where one of the characters, like, has, like, a super decked-out tent with, like, all electronic. He's got, like, a frozen yogurt machine in there. Yeah, right. Now that's camping. Yeah, yeah. That's great. That's my kind of camping.

Dave Jones: I know someone, a friend of mine did rock – who was into rock climbing and mountaineering and everything else. And they actually took a blender with them while they were rock climbing so that while they were halfway up the crag, they could sit there on the ledge and they could blend.

Chris Gammell: Wow. Wow. Yeah.

Dave Jones: And they could actually get us a fresh smoothie.

Chris Gammell: That is – that's extra. Yeah, yeah.

Dave Jones: Yeah, that's like – yeah. I don't think they did that all the time. They just did it because they could, you know, for kicks. Yeah. I think just the gimmicks. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. That's so fun. Yeah. Oh, boy. Oh, yeah. Good stuff. All right. Welcome to the club. Thank you. Yes, yes. Which is now not cool anymore.

Chris Gammell: There are many of us, yes.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Hybrids. Yeah, because Toyota, I think, were the ones who held off for the longest in, like, pure EVs to make their decision to generate pure EVs. And now they're being proven correct because all the other manufacturers are going, eh. You know, because all the – some of the other manufacturers are going, oh, we're going to make – every car is going to be pure EV by 2026 or something. You know, crazy like that. Some crazy, you know, timeline or something. And Toyota went, eh, nah. And now all the manufacturers are going, yeah, nah, I think we'll stick with hybrids. Yeah, oops. Whoopsies. Coming back. Especially here in countries like Australia, you know, because we just like – because, you know, the vast distances here and we can't go on a road trip with a pure EV. Well, you could, but, you know, it's pretty iffy. Range. The range anxiety. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. So – I did look it up. Nissan got a firmware update, Nissan Leaf, and they do have vehicle-to-grid, so.

Dave Jones: Right. Okay.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yep. Yeah, there's – But, you know, doesn't fit car seats very well, so.

Dave Jones: Oh, well. That's an out.

Chris Gammell: Sorry. Okay.

Dave Jones: All right. Sorry, Nissan. So you actually checked that one and you actually ruled that out based on the seats.

Dave Jones: No, I had a spreadsheet, man.

Chris Gammell: I had a spreadsheet of all the back – like the back seat, like headroom, shoulder room, foot room. That's all you care about.

Dave Jones: No, boot space, dude. I'm telling you. Boot space is everything. How many liters does that sucker have? I need to know. I don't know. What is it? A Chevy Bolt.

Chris Gammell: 23.1LT. We don't call it that. It would be trunk space. It's not too bad. 6.6 cubic feet. What's that?

Dave Jones: 6.5. Hang on. All seats in place. 16.6 cubic feet. Yeah. 10 liters. 16 cubic feet to liters.

Speaker ?: Hmm.

Chris Gammell: For an approximate result.

Dave Jones: 470.

Chris Gammell: That's okay.

Chris Gammell: Volume value by 28.317. Okay. Well, there's a multiplier factor for the day. For the day.

Chris Gammell: It's the multiplier of the day.

Dave Jones: Yep. 470 liters. There you go. That's all right. That's all right. Generally, anything over 500, I would consider, you know, pretty decent.

Chris Gammell: I got two suitcases and a backpack in there this afternoon. Nice. When my parents went to the airport. That's true.

Dave Jones: Oh, speaking of bloody cars, my Nissan Dualis 2010 model, which is a seven-seater. We got the seven-seater for the extra boot space. I think ours is about 550 liters, by the way, for those playing long at home, which still isn't quite big enough for some of our bigger trips. Like, we have a pod, which goes on the top, and, you know, sometimes we've had to take the pod, especially when the kids were smaller. You know, we have more stuff to take. But now that they're older, we have gotten away without the pod in recent times, but barely. So, yeah. Anyway, first fault in that. First ever fault. Well, I've uploaded videos on my second channel for this, but you don't watch my videos, so that's all right. I know.

Chris Gammell: I watch the title Swiss. Right. Moosh by.

Dave Jones: Moosh by. Anyway, what would happen is you turn the car off, and there's still a noise. Something's still running, even though you pull the key out. Yeah, something was still running. So I took a look. It turns out it's the ABS modulator. Modulator. So the anti-lock braking system, it's the modulator box, which modulates the hydraulic pressure or whatever it is going to the brakes. Oh, man.

Chris Gammell: There's like a great segue into car talk right here. Yeah, yeah.

Dave Jones: And so, you know, I put this up. I'll drive out my brother. Of course. Everyone knows. Everyone was going, oh, it's the relay. It's the MOSFETs. It's the, you know, it's anyway. The turbo encabulator. The turbo encabulator's failed, yes. Yeah, yeah. Right. Right. And, yeah, so it's, yeah, so that's failed, right? And so I was able to bypass it by removing one of the fuses that powers the electronics which powers it, right? Wait a second.

Chris Gammell: So you bypass the ABS in order to fix this noise problem?

Dave Jones: Yes. We have no anti-lock braking at the moment. But because anti-lock, people don't know this, anti-lock braking systems don't actually apply the brakes. They release the brakes.

Chris Gammell: That's right. They go.

Dave Jones: Yeah. So you can pump it. They actually pump the brakes by actually releasing the pressure on the brakes. So when you bypass an ABS system, you're not actually bypassing the brake system. You're just bypassing the ability of the modulator.

Chris Gammell: You're just switching into like manual mode, right? Yeah.

Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Yes. Yeah. So now if we're in, now if our car is actually, you know, in some sort of skid or something, we need to manually pump the brakes instead of it doing it for us. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: You know? So. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. There's a phrase that, you know, people, I feel like pump the brakes. Pumping the brakes. Phrase that people know, but they don't, maybe don't know the origin of it. Oh, no. It's black eyes.

Dave Jones: We fit some black eyes. You know? Start pumping the brakes to try and, yeah, yeah. So you don't skid as much.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: You're definitely still going to skid, but, you know, anti-lock. It just means the wheels don't lock up. And, you know, hence the name, anti-lock braking. Yeah. So anyway, we're bypassing that. And so I phone up some, phone up some repairers and everyone warned me about this. Everyone says, oh, dude, that's not cheap. So I phone up some repairers and they're going, oh. Unfortunately, it's serialized to the car, right? So it has active electronic serialization and programming in it. Yeah. This is like 2010.

Chris Gammell: Call up Lewis Rossman. Right.

Dave Jones: Yes. He'll have a rant about it. Right to repair.

Chris Gammell: Right to repair. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Anyway. So, yeah, I phoned up several repairers. And they all said, oh, yeah, they're all serialized. And even then, you have to possibly get, like, several different wrecked ones to try and get one that works or something. And it's like, and it's thousands of dollars. So I do have it booked into the manufacturer. So I'm going to go in there and I'm going to pay, like, $150 and they'll check it out and see if it's, and they'll give me a quote, which I'm sure will be astronomical. Yeah. So, yeah, we've got to. I haven't owned a car in so long, Dave.

Chris Gammell: This is just like, yeah, this is the kind of shit I own in my life.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Anyway, I do believe it is failed MOSFETs in there. I'm pretty sure it is. But I can't take it apart because it's so embedded, like, modern cars or something. Like, you can't get your hands in there.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, they're modules, right? They're basically, like, rip and replace kind of things, right?

Dave Jones: Well, it's mounted on the back of it and it's right down behind the engine. And you'd have to jack it up and come from the bottom of the car just to get access. Like, oh, God, you know, everything's so jam-packed inside a modern bonnet. So, yeah. Anyway, yeah, so I suspect that it's going to come back and they're going to say, oh, it's $3,000 and we're going to go, well, a 14-year-old car is it worth spending $3,000 on a 14-year-old car? Yeah, I might spend $1,000 maybe to keep it going. But, you know, if it's a couple of grand, yeah, we're going to – and then is anyone going to buy one that has a 14-year ABS? You would be surprised. You would be surprised. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Because the used car market during COVID, the used car market went gangbusters. It was – Totally. They cost more than a brand-new car, but now I think it's back. Yeah. I think they come back to normal now, but, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so, yeah, we might be in the market for another car. And, yeah, we were thinking about a pure EV, but nobody makes one with a big enough boot space. And if they do, it's like $100,000. That's right. It's crazy. So, yeah, we'll probably end up with maybe some hybrid or something. Or we might, you know, just buy a second-air one.

Chris Gammell: Time to make electric yourself, Dave. Come on.

Dave Jones: Make my own electric. I'll do a friend who made their own electric car, yeah.

Chris Gammell: I know.

Dave Jones: This was like 15 years ago. This was like before even Tesla came out. Right. Exactly. Yeah, a long time ago. And, yep. Yeah, that's very cool stuff. But, yeah, so I'll do that in order.

Chris Gammell: Yes, we talked about how you and I would never, ever do that for ourselves. No, no. We haven't yet. But we look at other people and we're like, that's awesome. Yep.

Dave Jones: I haven't got space to do it. I would not be allowed to have a car up on blocks in the front yard. No, true. You know, and you're like, no. So I'd just have to.

Chris Gammell: Another workspace with a garage attached. Another one.

Dave Jones: I would have to hire another work, like another garage. I'd have to hire a garage somewhere to, yeah, work on something like that. Yeah. That's how it goes. I always wanted to convert a van into a lab. Okay. I think we, I'm sure we talked about that before. Yeah, definitely. Yes, we definitely have. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be very cool. I still think that'd make for a great video, but, you know, it's not going to pay for the views. I'm going to pay for the van conversion.

Speaker ?: Yeah, right, right.

Dave Jones: Exactly. And I'm not really going to use a van lab, so. No.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. No, come on.

Dave Jones: Oh, boy.

Chris Gammell: Speaking of labs, I was just testing a board this afternoon. Probably the simplest board I've made in a very, very long time. Yeah. Um, it's just a USB, it's basically pilfering the five volts off of a USB plug and then generating 3.3 volts just to power a bunch of BBC micro bits. Been there, done that. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, basically the hard part was just, uh, buying the connectors. The connectors for those things are surprisingly hard to get. There's like, it doesn't seem like there should be.

Speaker ?: Is this a one-off?

Dave Jones: If it's just a one-off, you bodge stuff. You just cut a cable and, you know.

Chris Gammell: No, this is for a trade show, so it's got to look good. It's nice. Ah, it's got to look nice. And it's, I'm powering eight, eight, uh, uh, micro bits at once. Right. Got it. That's the real thing.

Dave Jones: Got it. Yeah, yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Otherwise, I, I agree. I agree. I have not used, you've used a micro bit. I remember you did a video with one of your kids.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. My kids use the micro bit. Yeah. Fun. Little thing.

Chris Gammell: It's a nice little platform. I mean, like, I didn't realize how much stuff was on there. And it's a part that I like. I mean, like, it's a 52 833, I think, is on there. I can't remember. For the V2 board. Yeah. And, uh, and then there's all the, obviously all the firmware, hardware that's built up on top of it and things like that. A bunch of LEDs. So yeah, there's, there's a bunch of tooling out there and like different, um, educational systems. And you, you had been doing the robot, right?

Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. We'll be. Yeah. A little line, line follower robot. Yep. Yeah.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Dave Jones: That's cool.

Chris Gammell: That's cool. Yeah. No, it's a great little, great little platform. So, um, trying to make that look trade show ready and, uh, see how that goes. Right. Yeah.

Dave Jones: I just realized we actually had a, uh, a segue, um, posted by, um, someone on the Reddit and posted by two scoops of destroyer. Great name.

Chris Gammell: Um, as you do.

Dave Jones: And, and it's a software update on a, on a, uh, door handle. It's like, I don't, is that a Tesla door handle? I'm like, there's a photo of this white door handle. I know. Cause, uh, the Tesla doesn't have a door handle. Does it? No. It has a pop out thing. Yeah. But this, this is like a proper old school door handle. And apparently they're like, and they're just showing a photo of them updating the firmware in their door handle. It's like, oh God, no, no, no, you're doing it wrong. You know, how to know you're doing it wrong. Updating it, you know, when your door handle needs firmware.

Chris Gammell: You gotta have lots of fancy stuff on there though. I mean, come on.

Dave Jones: God.

Chris Gammell: Ground lighting. And when this definitely looks, this is not, this is not the Tesla one. The Tesla one is, that's cool. The pop out one is cool.

Dave Jones: It's a pop out and it's totally integrated with the door. So it's all flush. No, this one looks like it's just bolted on the outside of the door. It's a white handle with a little button on the side and, you know, yep. I don't know. Maybe that's where like the key fob thing is. Cause mine's got a, uh, my EV has a, uh, Prox key fob. So only, only when I, yeah. So only when I get within like, I have to be within like half a meter of the door, uh, before the door will open. So yeah. Or, or the door will allow me to press the button. So I don't know where the antenna for that is. I presume it's in the handle maybe.

Chris Gammell: No, I don't think so. No. I think it's in the center of the car. Yeah.

Dave Jones: I think it's in the center of the car. Okay.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: I don't know. But yeah. Um, so there, unfortunately there's no detail on this. So I don't know what door hand, so I, so we can't, uh, um, savage the, uh, company involved. I wish I knew which one it was.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. I mean, it's the thing, like all these firmware updates, like they just pass, like you think about how many micros are on a car these days. Is the answer. And they're all just hanging off the canvas. So there's like basically something that's downloading all the firmware updates and then pushing them over the can. And then pushing them locally. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And so like, there's just something there listening and then there's like, um, you know, multiple can buses too. Like when Ken was on the show and Tyndale was on the show, he talked about a lot of this stuff. Um, and yeah, you just kind of chuck them down the line and see who's listening, you know, right. There's, here's your update. So I think this is just weird. Cause this is, this is detached, obviously. This is obviously detached from the car.

Dave Jones: It's sitting on the bench or whatever. It's sitting somewhere. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. They're just plugging in a, yeah, some sort of programmer into it. And updating the firmware on the bloody handle. Oh my God. Yep.

Chris Gammell: Yep.

Dave Jones: Anyway, I can't talk. My 2010 Nissan Dualis has to, in the ABS system is bloody firmware integrated with the, and serialized or something. It has to be programmed. Oh God. It's just, why? Like what's the advantage of that? Jesus. There's none. I don't know.

Chris Gammell: Um, I've, features are differentiators, Dave. I mean, that's what it comes down to. Right. Like, I don't know. Like I, I'm not, I'm not one of them.

Dave Jones: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: I'm like super jazzed about having just like Android auto at this point.

Dave Jones: Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Oh boy. I don't use Android auto cause it's too much of a sort of, like mine does support it, but our, up until recently we haven't had phones that adequately supported the version. It's like, it's like all version specific. Like trailing. Yeah. Like, Oh, it's all. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it technically does work, but then you've got to plug your phone into the car where, you know, you've got to plug it into the USB port. So that's just more where on the USB port on your phone. You know, it's like, yeah, I couldn't be bothered. So. Yep. But technically I think we can get Android auto working now and it integrates with our map display or something. It can show Google maps. Can it show Google maps? Is that how it works? Yeah, exactly.

Chris Gammell: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So it's basically like mirror, not mirroring, but it's like refactoring your phone screen and showing on the main display. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Which just makes it easier to see because the display is, you know, nearer to your field of vision. You don't have to, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: So what is yours? Like a big touchy feely screen in the new EV?

Chris Gammell: It is. Yeah. It's like a 10 inch touch touch screen.

Dave Jones: Yep. Got it.

Chris Gammell: But I just use the Android audio. So I don't really use the main stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Because ours has some weird ass European bloody or Japanese or something. Or is it South Korean? What is Hyundai? They're South Korean, aren't they?

Chris Gammell: South Korean. That's right. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. So you have some weird mapping system. Like it's okay on some things, but other things it's like, eh, meh. You know, I'd certainly rather be using Google Maps.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Hmm. And it's a pain in the ass. Just the user interface. God, can I bitch about user interfaces for a minute? It's like my old Garmin, right? My, you know, when we, before GPSs were actually integrated in cars, you bought like a little GPS, like a Garmin or a Tom Top or something like that. Right? And, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, and my Garmin would be nice. Like it, like you start typing in the address you want to go to. Right? So it's like something road, you know, roadway street. So you type in R, A, and then it'd give you a list of, you know, and then it would narrow down the list. But the, my EV, you have to type in the exact number, the exact street name, the exact street prefix before it'll even start to give you a thing. And it's like, oh God, I don't know how to spell. Like, I just want to type in the first couple of characters and then it pop up, you know, it should have like a list, a database in it. That, oh, okay. It, it, it should know that I'm trying to get these amount of roads in this particular state or suburb or whatever. So it should narrow it down, but it doesn't. So you've got to type in the exact street of gris. And if you don't type street instead, like if you type ST instead of street, it doesn't know, you know, it's like, oh God, you know, oh no, bad user interface design. Like just awful, awful. Yeah. Horrendous. It just makes me not want to use it. It's a pain in the ass. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a.

Dave Jones: Just totally ruins it. Like once it's in there, like I love how it's integrated because mine has like a, like the, uh, the map and not the map, but the drive, like the turn directions show up in my center thing straight in front of the wheel. So I don't have to glance over to the, uh, to the main actual display. I can just glance down at the steering wheel and it shows me the next turn and stuff like that, you know? So, which is really handy. So I love how that's all integrated. And then they screw it up by having an unusable bloody data entry system. It's just data entry. It's screwed up. Unbelievable. End of rant. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: It's tough, man. It's tough.

Dave Jones: I can't stand it. Drives me nuts. Anyway.

Chris Gammell: I, uh, I have been working on a new project where I'm tapping off of batteries, DeWalt batteries. Have you done any battery stuff like on power drills and stuff like that?

Dave Jones: No, no. That's quite common. Apparently people love to do that sort of thing. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: I, I don't, I was searching for some interfaces and the most common one that I saw was, uh, power wheel conversions. Do you guys have power wheels down there? What's a power wheel? Power wheels. It's like the kid toy. Like it basically looks like a little car and it's powered by like a little 12 volt battery.

Dave Jones: Oh, right. Yes. Yeah. We have something like that. Yep. Yep.

Chris Gammell: They're always like lead acid and like terrible recharge batteries or whatever.

Dave Jones: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. And they always like lost, lost, you know, it was just trickle charging.

Dave Jones: And it was just like, yeah, no, they've just got a plug pack with the diode and the capacitor and that's it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. They were like very underwhelming. And so basically, you know, your, your, your best drive is your first drive kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so the number one thing I was, when I was searching around for like DeWalt battery, so I have DeWalt system for my tools and stuff like that. So I was looking for like an interface. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Cool. And, um, and the number one thing for that is basically an interface to then go and it's got like a fuse in line and a switch in line so that you can go and power your kids power wheels and then reach out the battery. Nice. Yeah. With the ion thing. Yeah. Which is, it's great. I mean like. Cool. Ah, it's great. It's like perfect, like. Perfect.

Dave Jones: Perfect. Dad project. You know, like.

Chris Gammell: Yep.

Dave Jones: Yep. Totally.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. That is not what I was doing. Uh, I'm, I'm looking at tapping off this thing. Um, but I was surprised to see there's, um, other, so there's basically, there's a bunch of, uh, there's like basically just a B plus B minus if you wanted to just be like the, for instance, the power wheel thing is just tapping off there. Right. But then there's actually a balance. Like you can basically get at each, uh, cell. Oh, you can get at each cell.

Dave Jones: Okay. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. The Bosch system has a fourth, it has four terminals, I think. So I'm not sure what the other two do. I assume temp sensor or something.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. This one. So this one has a thermistor. It has an ID pin and then it has four individual cell pins. Oh, wow.

Dave Jones: That's a lot of pins.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah, it is.

Dave Jones: Let me have a look at the DeWalt.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. So it's like a two, two main and they're like, so it's like a blade. Oh yeah. That's a lot. Capture from blade. Wow.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Chris Gammell: So it's only really the charger that has the additional pins on it. Right. The drill, it's just like thermistor and the ID pin. Yeah.

Dave Jones: So there's five pins. So it's battery plus battery. Yeah. The mister and ID combined.

Chris Gammell: There's eight pins.

Dave Jones: Oh, there's eight. Oh, okay. I'm understanding.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. So if you look down the, you have to look at like a dead on kind of thing. Cause there's, there's like underneath to like separate those.

Dave Jones: Oh, okay. Oh yes. So it's got two separate banks of contacts.

Chris Gammell: That's right. Yep. Yeah. That's how you get up to the four. I think it must be a six cell. Right. It must be six cells for the. Okay. Let's see. One, two. Yeah.

Dave Jones: It's got terminals marked C1, C2, C3, and C4. So that'd be the four cells. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: And that's good for like balancing and stuff like that. But yeah, it's interesting. I'd really. Cool. All right. You know, I plugged this thing into a drill a bunch before, but never really like looked at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just like.

Dave Jones: Yeah. That's great.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. I remember Jonathan at one of the meetups when I came down in Australia, he had done, he had done something similar where he was running a soldering iron off of.

Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. I know. I, yeah. Quite a few people have done the, um, yeah. Yeah. That's a cool idea. To run their, you know, TS 100 iron from their drill.

Chris Gammell: Oh, this was a more traditional iron, I think it was like a hack or something like that. Yeah. But it was. Yeah. I mean. All of these things, but it is nice to have like the infrastructure and like the, just like the standardization of the.

Dave Jones: I love the standardization. Yeah. Cause I've just recently bought extra Bosch items that matched my batteries. So, you know. Right. Yeah. So I'm kind of obsessed with, oh, Bosch, give me more tools that support this battery. You know? Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Well, then I was like, so I was poking around and I'm, I'm trying to make some custom hardware that plugs into this thing. But then I was like, oh, I wonder how I can. So I'm getting towards talking about 3d modeling and how terrible I am at it. But in the midst of that, um, I was trying to find like a repli, like basically how do I find something that will work with this without having to actually go and do it. And, um, basically you can go on Amazon or eBay or anything like that and just look up like, like custom battery, um, Oh, there's like a receptacle interface, like a, just a

Dave Jones: bare interface. Is there?

Chris Gammell: Well, it's basically like, it's basically like a way that they're selling all the parts without selling the battery pack. So they don't get sued by DeWalt.

Dave Jones: Oh, I got it. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Right.

Chris Gammell: Basically this thing showed up with like, like basically it's like five 18650, um, like the space for five of them. And then this one is a four amp pack, four amp power pack rather. And so it's got a double stack of that. And then it's got the interface and it's got a bunch of boards that came with it and like a little battery, you know, quasi battery tester thing. That's basically just like a, you know, just testing the voltage and telling it from that. Um, but yeah, pretty cool. And then the, all I wanted to know was just like the interface at the top, but then it also has the little blade receptacles as well. So like that worked out great and the release, cause there's like a fancy catch to actually get this stuff out of here. So that was like super easy then. And then, um, I don't know. I'm just terrible at modeling 3d stuff. So I need to like make other plugs here. Um, but I am excited about like going to buy this stuff. Yeah.

Dave Jones: I just saw that somebody reversed engineered the Bosch, uh, charger, the Bosch 18 volt charger here. Wow. That's, that's really something.

Chris Gammell: The Bosch, the Bosch. So it's a Bosch 18 volt. Yes.

Dave Jones: Bosch, Bosch 18 volt.

Chris Gammell: It's lithium.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. So I'll send you the, uh. Oh yeah.

Chris Gammell: That looks very similar. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. And that's only five pin you said?

Dave Jones: Uh, it's four pin. Four pin. Yeah. It's four pin. Okay. Yeah. So it's battery, battery plus, battery minus cod, which I guess is code. Um, and then there's a, the Mr. Um, pin as well. So.

Chris Gammell: Huh.

Dave Jones: Yep. So I don't know what the pin does. I have to look into that. Maybe I can do a video on that. Actually reverse engineering, but somebody's already done it. That's the problem. I'm sure somebody's reverse engineered the, like the reverse engineered the charger here, but I'm sure they've also reverse engineered the, uh, if there's any code protocol or something.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: So.

Chris Gammell: Just need to get a hold of IC2 on this schematic. Yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll, um, I think I can get this link into the notes. Yeah. It's just a image. You are. So I'll add that to the notes too. Um, yeah. Cool. Yeah. Um, I don't know, like I don't have any, um, interest in messing with battery chemistry really, but like being able to use the, it does, it is interesting when you like, it felt very, uh, unapproachable at first. And then when you look at it, you're like, Oh look, that's just like a little slot of metal. Like the, the blade is just like a little slot of metal. It's like, there's not a ton, you know, they're trying to lower the manufacturing costs. It's not like a ton that's going on here. It's really just the putting in good batteries and like having all that stuff ready to go. Right.

Dave Jones: Yep.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Dave Jones: I, I, I just found somebody's got a 3d printed adapter that converts a Bosch battery to power your, uh, TS 100 soldering. I just sent you. Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So there you go. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: And that's the thing, like when you start to do that sort of thing now, like you can, you have all this infrastructure to go and buy batteries and, and, and not a small amount of batteries either. You have a charger, like a reliable charger infrastructure, or you can build your own like you showed. And then, uh, and then basically you have like an interface to go and utilize it. So then you just need, I don't know. I, I, I'm actually really excited. I think the move to 48 volt, um, automotive stuff, you know, that's happening.

Dave Jones: Yeah. That's happening. Yeah. Or they're trying to. Yeah. I didn't. Yeah. Tesla open source to their, uh, 48 volt thing, didn't they? Or something.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Like that. So I think, I think we're going to see an interesting, um, uptick in new parts that are more voltage tolerant as well. Like, you know, it'll hit automotive grade at first, but then it'll kind of trickle down in just the commercial level parts. Right. I'm guessing. Um, you know, maybe they'll test them.

Dave Jones: Not, not many things need that higher voltage though. I mean, there's not, you know, it's not really a big need for it though.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Not yet, but you know, if you're tapping off 48 volt buses and cars, then eventually to, you know, you could, you can utilize it and really just the, having the, having the headroom is never bad. Right.

Dave Jones: No, no, no. It's not bad. Cause you can get more power out of, you know, smaller traces, smaller wires. Yeah, exactly. Right. Right. Right.

Chris Gammell: It's just a little, maybe a little scarier for people at first, but then once you get used to it, I feel like it's just, you know, you talk to someone who's worked in 48 volts, like lighting and stuff like that. Yeah. It's fine. You know, it's just like, what do you get used to? Yep. Just like the linemen that are working, you know, mid, mid, mid range, uh, 30 kilovolt, you know, lines are like, you know, no problem.

Dave Jones: I've got no problems with 48 volts. That's fine.

Chris Gammell: Great. Yeah. There you go. There you go.

Dave Jones: Yep.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: Zero fear of 48 volts.

Chris Gammell: Perfect. Perfect.

Dave Jones: Awesome. Yeah. Oh boy. No, it's great. It's interesting. Have you seen the prices of these batteries though? I don't know about your DeWalt ones, but my Bosch ones are like, Jesus, you know, like, like, like, cause I got them as part of a pack where I bought the drills and, and stuff. Right. And, and, and you get one with it and it's like, yeah, but if you have to buy new separate batteries, it's like what, 120 bucks for 150 bucks for one battery. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: It's definitely like a razor blades and razors. Yeah. Except the razors are really expensive batteries.

Dave Jones: And if there's one thing that has the, uh, you know, you can buy the ripoff ones for 50 bucks instead of 150, but you know, like, I don't know, they're going to be like crap. Right.

Chris Gammell: So, well, I think that's this kit that I bought is basically like kind of make your own, you know? So if you, if you wanted to, you could go and, you know, put your own battery, you know, the spot weld, your own batteries together.

Dave Jones: Well, you could, but you know, like the Bosch ones are so good. Like I've, I've got original 18 volt Bosch batteries from my original drill that I used to build my back deck 20 years ago and they, and they still work. They still work. Um, although the ESR is getting a bit high cause I tried to use one of them with my new, uh, blower that I've got cause I've got a blush, a Bosch vacuum cleaner now, and I've got a Bosch, uh, blower as well. So I try to use it with a blower and the blower works for about five seconds and then it cuts out to a lower speed cause it can't handle, obviously the ESR is not, you know, ESR is too high and it's just dropping back or whatever. But, and, and that only does it with my 80, with my 20 year old battery, but still like after 20 years, this lithium ion, this 18 volt lithium ion pack still works. Your drill still works, you know, everything like.

Chris Gammell: Would you say your blower kind of sucks?

Dave Jones: No, my sucker sucks. My vacuum, uh, my, uh, blower blows.

Chris Gammell: Blower blows. Right.

Dave Jones: Totally blows dude.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Totally blows. Yep.

Dave Jones: That's what she said. Yep. Okay. Anyway, batteries. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah. I, yep. Yep.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. So I.

Dave Jones: That'd be fun.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. That's, that's not a bad idea. I, um, I found the other nice thing. Is that people have, you know, like you, you linked me to printables thing, which is great. Um, people have modeled the entire battery as well, which is nice for making interfaces. But now I have, I have to square with myself the fact that I'm not, uh, good. Right. Uh, if anyone out there is a reasonably priced mechanical engineer, I would love to talk to you.

Dave Jones: See, what would be an interesting project is like a lot of people, when the new, uh, that little, uh, Rigol, uh, Rigol, uh, Rigol 800 scope, uh, came out, a lot of people actually, uh, did battery solutions for that. And there was. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, it makes sense to just, oh yeah, let's, if we can do something that slots in a, uh, you know, a Bosch or a DeWalt, uh, drill battery or whatever in, into the back of it, wouldn't, wouldn't that be cool? You know? Yeah. And, um, yeah, that's great. That'd be great. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. It is interesting. Uh, I watch, uh, DSLR video shooters, one of the YouTube channels I follow. It's like a camera guy. Yeah. And he started making a lot of stuff, uh, for, he's like, make, he's actually manufacturing now, which is awesome.

Dave Jones: Let me guess. He uses, uh, the Sony batteries.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. The V type, whatever those are like the, wait, no, not, not the Sony. The Sony ones are the ones that I think you told me about. Those are like the aperture, the Sony batteries. Those are like the two pins.

Dave Jones: My, uh, lights use the Sony batteries. Yeah. I can plug the Sony batteries into the back. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: No, this is not that. I was actually thinking of the V, the V mount batteries. So the Sony batteries are just literally just two pins, right? There's no, no interfaces.

Dave Jones: Well, there's a third one for a temp sensor, I think.

Chris Gammell: Okay. Okay. So what's a V mount battery?

Dave Jones: I'm going to have to.

Chris Gammell: V mount is like, I think it's like a 12 volt battery. It's like, it's from like the higher end, like lighting industry. Okay. But then I think they have a low cost connector for it. Okay. It's called a V mount. Right. Yeah.

Dave Jones: It seems to be lighting. Yes. My first hit is like pro lighting stuff.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Right. Exactly. B and H photo, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If your first hit is B and H, you know, you're about to pay through the nose. Right.

Dave Jones: Okay.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. But they're massive batteries. Right. Right. And that's like, and then I think the, I think to make your own like interface for the V mount, it's like the V mount is like, because I think the, the, as the connector slots in, it's like, it's so that you can kind of blind made it so that it like it, the V is so that it, um, basically however it slides in.

Dave Jones: It's complicated. I don't actually, I'm not seeing photos where I actually get what it actually looks like. It's kind of weird.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Okay. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Well, like you see like a triangular blade, not a triangular, it's like a trapezoid blade. Like that's the. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Yeah. There's something like that, but it's look.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: So V mounts though are very, they're expensive batteries too, right? They're like high end expensive batteries used for like photo shoots and stuff like that. Got it. Okay. I've always, uh, ignore them. Actually, I just found a thing with Caleb on it. So, um, I'll link that into.

Dave Jones: I'm staring at Google images here and I still don't know how it actually connects.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: It looks, it looks complicated, but okay. If it's the pro industry standard, then so be it. You know?

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. So I, I think that would actually probably be an interesting like crossover thing where like if you started issuing a V mount, right. If you were in the lighting industry too, you probably could start to use like tool batteries as well, you know, you know, that sort of thing. So yeah. Yeah.

Dave Jones: But it limits you to the market who carry that sort of tool battery. You know, it's like. Yeah. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. It's kind of. Yeah. Yep. Like, like if you did an interface for a, uh, I goal scope, for example, like a battery, you know, battery powered interface. It's like, well, okay. I personally use Bosch, but somebody else uses Keter or something, you know, it's like, oh. Yeah. Right. Right. Yep. So it's the old, um, you know, make a standard, make a new standard. Okay. Yeah. We made 15 standards. Yeah. The SKCD thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's like. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Too much choice.

Chris Gammell: Well, that's another thing that you'll find if you start searching around on Amazon or eBay is that another popular thing is just the converters, right? So like just going from one battery type to another, if you do have, you know, if you're switching between systems.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Dave Jones: I've actually never had to do that, but yeah, I can see why that'd be. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be a thing. Hmm. No, I, I've standardized on Sony batteries here in the lab because I've got all Sony, mostly all Sony cameras. And as I said, my, uh, lights here, my studio lights can take Sony batteries, but I don't often use those. I've actually gone through quite a few of those Sony, uh, V100 batteries or whatever. Um, like, cause I can't buy, I don't buy the general ones cause they, you know, cost an absolute 200 bucks a battery or something insane. Right. Right. Especially the really high capacity ones. In fact, hang on. I've got.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Those are like six cells up too. I think like the really, really thick ones are like, they're like six, six cells inside of them. Right. Yes. They're like real chonky.

Dave Jones: Yeah. And the, even, even the thin one, which looks like it has two 18, six fifties in it. That's the NP F five 50 I've got here. That's a low profile one. I use that on my low profile lights. Um, but, but my biggest studio lights, they can take the real big monsters.

Chris Gammell: Um, Dave's buying a secondhand stuff. The new year.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. It's like near, near, near, near.

Dave Jones: Yeah. That, how do you say that?

Chris Gammell: How do you say that?

Dave Jones: I have no idea how it's newer or something newer. I don't know.

Chris Gammell: It's like newer, but it's got an extra E at the front. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Jones: It's got a, yeah. I just call it newer, you know? Yeah. No shit third party brand, you know? Yeah. It's okay. I've actually got some of this stuff. It's okay. You know, it's not, it's not genuine of course, but you know, it's good enough for Australia kind of thing.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: So yeah. Anyway. Um, so yeah, I buy, um, yeah, I, I'm actually staring at a newer battery right now and yeah, I've had quite a few of those fail on my lights, but I think that's because there's a design issue with my aperture Amaran lights. And I've done a repair video on one of these where I actually repaired a MOSFET, which is part of the charge circuit in there. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I, it was killing my batteries. Like I would, okay. Well, okay. Something wrong with the battery. So I buy a new, newer battery or whatever. And I stick it in there and a week and, and, and a week later that one's died too. Cause the bloody thing was like a virus. It was, you know, it was like transferring the virus and just killing these batteries, killing them dead. You couldn't freaking revive them. Pain in the ass. And I tried to revive them too. You know, like you can put a fixed voltage on them for a set period of time and try and, you know, try and revive the cells and stuff. But no, no, it just, just killed them dead. So only pain in the ass. So yeah, I rarely use the batteries in those big lights anymore. I only use them on the small ones. Don't trust the damn things. Kill all my batteries. Bastards. Yep.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, it is. Uh, it was a nice thing when I finally started to get like, start demystifying, like, like, like learning like the lithium ion curve and stuff like that. Just like the charging, what do you need to do? Like being able to put it on a source meter or something like that and just be like, okay, program the current and then put it into compliance and it's fine. Right. Compliance is 4.2 and you're good. Right. Like, okay. Right. Yeah. That, that was a nice, like, I don't know. Prior to that was just like, oh, the charger does all the work. And it's like, no, you actually, if you learn, if you learn the, the curve and just. If you learn the curve.

Dave Jones: And you can do it at home. You know, you can, I've got a video that's a tutorial on charging, um, lithium ion, uh, batteries with your home, uh, power supply. You know, you put the constant, you put the compliance voltage so it doesn't go over and you put it in a constant current mode and it's, you know, it's going to switch. Yeah. And then it floats at that voltage and does a float charge and blah, blah, blah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. That's cool. Great. Yep.

Dave Jones: Yep. All good. It's kind of a bit more complicated to charge a new EV though. It's a bit.

Chris Gammell: I will not be doing that. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Right.

Chris Gammell: I am curious about what it's going to take to, uh, to keep that battery going. I don't know how that works over time either.

Dave Jones: Well, I used to only charge mine to 80% unless I was like going on some big road trip where and then I charge it at a hundred percent. Right. But I generally only charge it to 80%. Um, but now I've started charging it to 90. So in the last two years, I think. So the first two years I did it to 80%. So that helps the life of the battery. Um, but now it's 90. So yeah, you definitely don't want to charge it a hundred percent all the time. Don't do that. That will.

Chris Gammell: Well, my power points in my garage aren't working at all. So I, I don't, I'm not charging at all right now.

Dave Jones: Oh, right. Well, um, good luck. Okay. You're going to be stranded in a few days.

Chris Gammell: I'm fine, man. Like that's the thing. I've used like 60 miles of range so far and that's been like weeks.

Dave Jones: So you're still the original charge from the, from the dealer. Pretty much. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: This is like, I'm using dealer power, you know, get my money's worth. Yeah. Yeah. Right. All the crap they put me through. Oh, I hate car dealerships. Yeah. Ugh.

Dave Jones: Yeah. I know. Yeah. Yeah. It's the worst. Yeah. It's the worst. God.

Chris Gammell: Uh, but yeah. Uh, oh, the last thing I was going to say about, uh, this stuff is CAD modeling. I would like to talk to someone, but otherwise I think I might use, I might try on shape. I might try and use this as a way to learn on shape because I have a really good like base model and I can make stuff to plug into this. And also I even have, I even found a model. So I printed the, the model of the battery. I have that sitting on my desk. If you've heard me playing with plastic here, it's probably me playing with, this battery. Um, and then I even found an interface board, like a nicely done interface board or interface plug for that, which actually, you know, it's like, has like a slot for putting in the blade contacts. Yeah. So that's good. So I have that as a reference point as well, but I have to then go and replicate it. And it's just been like so long that I've been, since I've been doing parametric modeling that I got to go and like figure out how to copy something. Yeah.

Dave Jones: So now I've, I've, I've got a video on my second channel where I converted one of my, um, uh, magnifying, uh, lamps. I converted one of my magnifying lamps into, to use my Sony battery. And let me see if I can find that for you. And because I know you desperately want to see it, Chris.

Chris Gammell: Uh, yeah. Yeah. No, I'm just always like, you know, I'm out of, Dave doesn't make enough videos. I need to find something to watch. I really hope he sends me something to watch. Here we go.

Dave Jones: Sony battery lamp hack. It was a, an exclusive video, but it did actually release it, um, publicly later. So there it is there. And, um, yeah, so I was, um, like, how do I, like, do I like design contacts or something for the Sony battery? Like, you know, like, cause I plug in my existing Sony camera battery into this, uh, illuminated lamp, right? Right. So it's a lamp driving some lead. So it's like a handheld thing. And, um, I, I went, ah, no, bugger that's too much trouble. So I just bought a cheap eBay charger and just hacked it to bits. I just hacked out the guts out of it and then just sold it onto the back of the PCB on the terminals. Right.

Chris Gammell: And that is the hardest thing, right? And you want to make sure you have like good contact. Oh yeah, totally.

Dave Jones: The physical interface, you know, I didn't want to dick around and the tolerances are tight and, you know, it's like, ah, I just want to put this together in five minutes. You know, I didn't want to spend a lot of, a lot of time on it. So yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: So there you go.

Chris Gammell: Maybe I should do the same and just like bondo two of these designs together.

Chris Gammell: Yep. Yep. In the short term. It's vastly easier. Yeah. Yeah. So that was a really fast. It's a trade show thing though, Dave.

Chris Gammell: Another trade show thing.

Dave Jones: Yeah, but I don't know. I've had hacks on the trade show stand.

Chris Gammell: I know. Yeah. It's all about the movie magic, how much you can get. Right.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: If anyone's listening and going to be at Embedded World. Right.

Dave Jones: Embedded World Germany.

Chris Gammell: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtains. Right. Yes.

Dave Jones: Yep. Yep. And again, there is a prize if you can snap a photo of Chris at the Embedded World just looking on the stand, just looking sort of depressed or something.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. The best. You can catch me at all this time. I think it's going to be not, I'm not going to be on the stand that much.

Dave Jones: Oh, right. Okay. Right.

Chris Gammell: Run around. Run around like a chick with a mic cut off.

Dave Jones: Secret meetings with all clients. Secret meetings.

Chris Gammell: Bingo. There it is. Yeah.

Dave Jones: That's the ticket laddie. Yep.

Chris Gammell: Yep. Yep. Yep. Secret meetings. But I have lots of hacks. Hacks with me.

Dave Jones: Okay.

Chris Gammell: Try and bring my CH32 VW3 boards.

Dave Jones: Excellent.

Chris Gammell: Untouched since the last time we talked about it. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Join the club. Yep.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Dave Jones: Good stuff. All right. Well, I think our amp hour's up.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Off to do some battery hacking here. That was a lot of battery stuff and car stuff this time.

Dave Jones: Cars and batteries. Yep. Cars and batteries.

Chris Gammell: Batteries and cars.

Dave Jones: Yep. What is your AI image generation engine of choice these days? Because I know there's mid, you know, because we used to use mid journey, but now there's Gemini will make them, although it won't make it if you've got a person in it. Because Gemini is, you know, entirely racist. So they actually took that out. Right. So they removed the ability to generate pictures with people in them.

Chris Gammell: That was their short term fix, huh? Yeah.

Dave Jones: Yeah. That short term fix was just zero people. Yeah. But yeah.

Chris Gammell: I have not used the other ones yet. I still use this mid journey. Right. Okay. Yeah.

Dave Jones: I've still got my mid journey subscriptions. Yep. Yeah. Generate those. But the Gemini ones are only small though. They only generate like small outputs. I haven't figured out how to make like a bigger version of it yet. So they're like.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Mid journey is great because they started doing upscaling and stuff like that too. You can do upscaling. Yeah.

Speaker ?: You can do upscaling.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. You can get like 4K photos. Yeah.

Dave Jones: You still need the paid version for that, right? To get all that fancy stuff, don't you?

Chris Gammell: I don't know because I'm just like so flush with cash, Dave. I'm just like. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Right. Yeah. Just throwing money at AI services.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. You know.

Dave Jones: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: No big deal. Right. High end. Living that high life.

Dave Jones: Well, I'm thinking about stopping my subscription to OpenAI because I don't use it much anymore. And.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. I mean, you could use Bing instead. I feel like this is going to be the.

Dave Jones: Yeah. There's Gemini. There's Grok. Like Gemini just works. Like you don't have to log in or something. You just go there and boom. Well, I'm already logged into my Google account.

Chris Gammell: I think there's going to be a lot of. I think it's going to be like the streaming services too where there's going to be a lot of like free trials. Oh, yeah. No, totally. And you'll be like. Oh, all right. Yeah. I forgot I have. I forgot I'm paying 12 bucks a month towards that. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Keep an eye on it. What we need is an AI thing to keep an eye on our credit card.

Dave Jones: Well, that's like I was looking at my account the other day and I went, oh, what's this charge? And oh, yeah, it's bloody open AI. I haven't. Geez. I haven't used that in a month. Yeah. Right. It's like, you know.

Chris Gammell: Right.

Dave Jones: Yep. Yep. And it's not cheap either.

Chris Gammell: Have it write your poem, Dave. You know.

Dave Jones: Yep. That's all you need.

Chris Gammell: Get your money's worth. Right. Oh, boy. Yeah. No, I'm. I think we'll see more and more of that stuff. I heard someone. I think it was on Pivot. Scott Galloway was talking about the. Like how AI services are kind of commodity.

Chris Gammell: They're almost commodity now. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Right. Right. We're already kind of like into that space, which is kind of interesting to think about. But like it is you think about just like all the product announcements you see for just AI this, AI that where it's just like, oh, this this stuff again. Like, why do I need notion to write some part of a document of just generic stuff where it doesn't know what I'm talking about? Like at that point, why do anything? Like, no, I actually I'm here for a reason. I'm going to do it. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Dave Jones: And the unfortunate thing is, is that each one has its own kind of niche thing that it does well. Yeah. Right. Right. You know, open AI do a thing. Mid journey will do one thing. Gemini do another. Grok will do another thing for live news or whatever. Like summaries and everything's got it. Like there's no one to rule them all, you know? So you kind of like, if you're serious about using it, you've got to like have a subscription to all the bloody things.

Chris Gammell: Right. Exactly. That's why it's like streaming, you know?

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. It's a pain in the ass. Yeah. Yeah. Because you can never watch anything. You can't find anything. That's right. Exactly. You have to find the five streaming. Right.

Chris Gammell: Right. Exactly. Like how do I watch Oppenheimer? Oh, it's on this streaming service. Okay. Yeah.

Dave Jones: Well, last night we just watched, um, Coast Busters Afterlife and we had to pay for that. It's like, Jesus, none of the streaming services that I own. Really? Okay. Just had to pay, you know, four, five bucks or something to watch Ghost Busters Afterlife. Yeah, exactly.

Chris Gammell: It's halfway to a streaming, a streaming month, right? Yeah. You know, like that's crazy.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Because they like, it was on a streaming service and they've removed it.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. That's what they're training us for, Dave. To just, to just accept what they give us. Yeah. You know what? We have preferences and we, we, we need to have the things that we want. We're consumers, damn it, we have power. I want it right now. Oh God.

Dave Jones: Yeah. Anyway.

Chris Gammell: Yep. All right. Well, if anyone's still listening, thanks for paying for this streaming service with your attention and your time. Sorry for all the bad jokes.

Dave Jones: Catch you next time. See ya.

Speaker ?: Bye. Thank you.