#331 – An Interview with Simone Giertz

Chris Gammell: This is The Amp Hour Podcast. Recorded January 11th, 2017. Episode 331. Interview with Simone Yach. Welcome to The Amp Hour. I'm Chris Gammell of Contextual Electronics.

Simone Yach: I am Simone Yach, the CEO of Artificial Stupidity and one of the hosts on Tested.com.

Chris Gammell: Oh, is that a new thing? This Artificial Stupidity?

Simone Yach: It's my company.

Chris Gammell: I didn't know that. Oh, wow, exciting.

Simone Yach: It's all in Sweden. No, it's Artificial Stupidity.

Chris Gammell: I didn't know you had like an official name. That's a great name for a... Isn't it? It took a lot.

Simone Yach: I chose between that and Robot Uprising.

Chris Gammell: Okay. I think Artificial Stupidity could definitely be more things than just one. You know, like when you have robot in the name, it's always going to be robots, right? But Artificial Stupidity could be literally anything. So I think that's a good call.

Simone Yach: I mean, it is mainly an entertainment company, but I do get to buy a lot of tools.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Oh, yeah, exactly. You're doing it right. Okay, well, welcome. We should say that Simone swears like a pirate. So welcome to the Swedish pirate, Simone.

Simone Yach: Thanks. Am I supposed to say thanks to that? I don't know. Okay. You swear more than I do.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, I don't know. I do, yeah. We should... So obviously, you know, you and I have known each other for a while now. Everybody probably listening knows who you are, but if they don't, who are you?

Simone Yach: Oh, it's a very... It makes for a very awkward pitch.

Chris Gammell: Oh, no, it's great. If you were selling to... Pretend I'm a VC and I'm going to fund artificial... Oh, gosh. No, I'm not giving anybody money.

Simone Yach: Who am I kidding? I'm not giving anybody money. But I... So I guess that I work on the internet. Sounds like I'm doing like a striptease show. I'm not. Yeah. I'm not like a webcam person. I do work on the internet.

Chris Gammell: That's all you, Chris. Literally, I work in front of a webcam all the time, yeah.

Simone Yach: That's all you. Yeah. But I run a YouTube channel about robotics where I build shitty robots. So useless robots that fail in hopefully entertaining ways. Yes.

Chris Gammell: Excellent.

Simone Yach: Yeah? Okay. I've been working at it. So I've been working with this for one and a half years and I feel that I'm finally starting to settle on a pitch of some sort. Yeah. That's good. But it's always... It makes for very interesting Uber conversations when you try and explain what you do.

Chris Gammell: Oh, yeah. Man. You know, my friend is like... She's like, oh, I always have the best Uber pool conversations. And I'm like, I don't want to talk to people. Like, just...

Simone Yach: Oh, really?

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Simone Yach: I'm always... I'm very concerned because I apparently have a very good score. I have 4.9 in Uber and I've gotten... So some Uber driver, apparently they're not supposed to tell you that, but somebody told me. And I've gotten so concerned. It's kind of when you were a kid and you got grades and I was like, I'm going to get straight A's. So now I feel very concerned with keeping my score up. So I'm always like, how's your day going, sir?

Chris Gammell: It's like reverse customer service.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. You got to be a good customer. That's...

Chris Gammell: I guess so.

Simone Yach: The tables have turned.

Chris Gammell: I think... So when are you building the shitty artificial intelligence car or the self-driving car? Oh, I don't know.

Simone Yach: Do I have to... I mean, I don't have a driver's license yet. So I don't know if I should get that before or just... Or maybe build a car that doesn't need me to drive it.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. I was going to say, if it's self-driving, it does it yourself. You just need like a really good airbag and a helmet. Yeah. Yeah. I assume if it's bad at being in a self-driving car.

Simone Yach: I wouldn't say no. Okay. Yeah. I'm down. So how have you been, Chris? I just wanted like... Because we've known each other for a pretty long time. Like we've known each other since pre-Queen of Shitty Robot stuff. Oh, yeah. Which feels like a very long time ago for me.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. And we met... So we met at HardwareCon. I mean, it wasn't that many years ago. I mean, yes, it was a long time ago in terms of like life events for you for sure and life events for me as well. But like in terms of like raw years, what was it? Like 2010? 2011?

Simone Yach: No. No, no, no, no, no. It's no. It's even closer. I think it's like three years ago.

Chris Gammell: See, this is what happened. So like last week I had Zach on who was one of my college buddies. And I was like, oh, what was it? Like less than 10 years? He's like, no, it was 14 years. It's just all... It all just kind of blurs together after a certain amount of time. So...

Simone Yach: Yeah. That's good. Because you're not... Like when you were 14, two years ago, you were 12 and you're like, I haven't hit puberty yet. Right. So it's like now you're kind of pretty much the same person. So it's just hard to gauge time.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: They're putting me out to pasture soon, I think, you know? So... Yeah. Plus I'm drunk a lot. Let's be honest.

Simone Yach: That's a great mental image. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Me just chewing my cud in the middle of a field.

Simone Yach: Just queuing. And they're like, Chris, is that you? And you're like, I don't remember.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Simone Yach: Could be me. Could be somebody else.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. Where did you meet Simone? Oh, I met her in a field. In a field. Yeah.

Simone Yach: We were just eating grass.

Chris Gammell: So we met at Hardware Con and that's when you were working at Light Blue... Sorry, Punch Through.

Simone Yach: I was working at a company called Punch Through. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Team listeners will recognize Punch Through as the makers of Light Blue Bean. And also former guest, Colin, your former boss, was on the show.

Simone Yach: Oh, yeah.

Chris Gammell: It's things he said about you.

Simone Yach: Oh, really? Yeah. I don't think he was talking about me at all. But oh, I love Colin. He's great.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, he's great. Yeah. Yeah. So what did you do there?

Simone Yach: I worked as a maker in residence. So I was just... I mean, basically, I got interested in hardware and I was kind of debating with myself if I should go and study it in school. But then I realized that I could probably get a job in the field and just get paid to learn about it. So after I'd been like tinkering with Ardrinos for about six months, I managed to get a job as a maker in residence at Punch Through. So my job was just to find different cool ways of using the Light Blue Bean. So they're a little Arduino compatible board. So I just got to like build stuff and write tutorials and learn about electronics.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, that was great. And I remember you did... The one I remember was the Death Star thing you did.

Simone Yach: There were not very memorable projects, any of them, I think.

Chris Gammell: No, it's good though. I mean, so here's the thing. So I used to... I used to... Like I've talked about on the show before, I used to kind of like... Not lash out, but I used to just kind of like brush those things off. But you know what? Those like really engaging, creative projects at the beginning, like they're... It's really tough to pull people in to electronics. And if you can do that in any way with any form of, you know, even if it's silly, even if it's something small, I think that's really important. I mean, I really do. Because there's so many people that don't care at all about electronics, right? We've got a lot of people listening that do care about electronics, but a lot of people don't. And so, I mean, I'm sure you experienced that when you were there.

Simone Yach: Yeah, I think that was like my key insight as well that because I did some projects that were more useful and nobody gave a fuck.

Chris Gammell: Right, exactly.

Simone Yach: And then I did like projects that were more silly and suddenly people were watching it to a much bigger extent. So, I think it's...

Chris Gammell: Right, and that obviously led into the robots thing too, right?

Simone Yach: I mean, like that informs a lot of that stuff. Totally. But I think overall, like, because there's a certain type of person that gets... That like generic electronics appeals to that's like, oh, like I want to learn how to build stuff or like hack my radio or whatever. But then there's a bunch of people who that doesn't appeal to. And I think that if you can kind of mix comedy into it or do something that's more creative or artsy or whatever, you can suddenly just get... Reach a completely different audience.

Chris Gammell: Right. Well, and I think it's actually a great business opportunity. Like, so like I look at Adafruit and Spark... I mean, SparkFun as well. SparkFun, Adafruit. Like, they do these fantastic tutorials. They're bringing people into the field. And they're just showing like, just do this, do this, do this. And it's all based on, I want that thing at the end. Right. And it's like... And then, oh, along the way, like, yeah, if you're going to buy this stuff, of course we have it available. But it's not like, you must buy this. It's just, here it is. And I think that that's the new normal. And I think that's a great method to go along, right? Obviously, you're doing the same thing at Punch-Through.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to write tutorials and stuff like that. But I realize like what I do now is pretty different from that because I barely or like hardly ever talk about how I've built the projects that I do. I just kind of brush past that because people just, I've like noticed people drop out whenever I start talking about, yeah, like how I built the projects. So I think, but I think overall there's so many resources that are great and educational like Adafruit and SparkFun. I think they're doing a great job. Like when I was starting to learn about electronics, it was really valuable for me. Their tutorials and they were just like very detailed. Yeah. But I just, I can't compete with that. But I can like build spectacular things.

Chris Gammell: Weirdness. Things, yeah.

Simone Yach: Spectacular weirdness or things that fail in spectacular ways. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: No, no, it's great though. I mean, and I, I think you're, I think you're spot on too with the, um, I mean, what it really is, it's like a mass market problem, right? You know, the, have you ever seen, have you seen Idiocracy? You ever seen that movie? Yes. And it's like.

Simone Yach: Oh gosh. Yeah. I feel, I feel, um.

Chris Gammell: We're moving towards it a little bit. Yeah.

Simone Yach: No, I feel like I'm a part of it.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Uh, but like the show on there, Owl My Balls, where like the entire show is a guy hitting the balls. It's like the absolute like distillation of like the, the, the lowest common denominator of, of, of lowbrow humor and intelligence. Like that's, that's what we're moving towards, right? Not, not, not saying you were there, but I'm just saying that in general, if that was like.

Simone Yach: But I did do a project that hit a guy in the balls.

Chris Gammell: Oh, that's true. You did.

Simone Yach: I did the pussy grab spec machine. Ouch, Chris. Oh, that hurts.

Chris Gammell: Well, you know. No, but it is like, I've been thinking a lot.

Simone Yach: Yeah. He was, he was such a champ about it though. Yeah. But, um, but I mean, I do think a lot about idiocracy because my great, great, great grandfather was the founder of Ericsson and one of the main inventors of the telephone.

Chris Gammell: Holy crap. I didn't know that. Yeah.

Simone Yach: So Ericsson is one of my sponsors and one of the big reasons that they're doing that is because it's my ancestor. No. Nepotism. Nepotism. I don't even know. Like we have inherited zero money from it, but I'm at least getting this. But I feel like the biggest living proof of idiocracy because my great, great, great grandfather was this huge inventor and a really smart dude. I'm just like running around, throwing around plastic hands.

Chris Gammell: Well, okay. Yes, you are doing that, but that's also moved you into new roles as well. So I don't think like if you just gave up and you were just making just different hand to crotch devices for the rest of your life, then yeah. Right.

Simone Yach: I mean, we have hand to crotch. We have hand to butt. We have hand to boob. Hand to hair. No, you already made the hand to hair. Hand to eyeball. I mean, there's just endless opportunity here with hand to different, hand to body part combination.

Chris Gammell: I'm just saying, Simone, don't give up. Don't give up on your dreams.

Simone Yach: Okay. I'm not going to give up, Chris.

Chris Gammell: Good. Oh, man. This is such an uplifting show. We are going to be okay in 2017.

Simone Yach: Yeah, you think, I have big hopes for, I think like 2016 sucked, but to me personally, it was really great. And I have high hopes for 2017.

Chris Gammell: I'm trying to be as hopeful as I can be.

Simone Yach: Gosh. Yeah. You are old.

Chris Gammell: I know. Yep. Yep.

Simone Yach: This is how you know you're old when you're like.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. It's all downhill from here, Simone.

Simone Yach: It's all downhill from here. Let me tell you, you youngster. Oh, do you have hip problems yet?

Chris Gammell: Some days, yeah.

Speaker ?: No.

Chris Gammell: It's mostly that I'm not flexible enough, but some days they hurt too. Anyways. Oh, God. Okay. So, wow. So, Erickson, though, that's really cool. So, you've been doing videos and they're sponsored now. So, how's that go? So, I do apologize. Dave's not here because he has some insight on that stuff too. But how does that work for you?

Simone Yach: What do you mean? It's sponsored?

Chris Gammell: Yeah. I don't even know how that works. You know, like.

Simone Yach: It's.

Chris Gammell: They just call you and be like, just say your name at the end and we're cool.

Simone Yach: It depends. Some are definitely more engaged and some are more hands off. The kind of some actually my favorite type of sponsor is the one that's a little bit more hands off. And it's just like, just put our logo there and gives me free, like, the ability to do pretty much whatever I want. But it's, I mean, it's a part like, I do different events for them. So, I was at CES last weekend to, I gave like two interviews for them.

Chris Gammell: Okay.

Simone Yach: And yeah, but it's pretty chill. Okay.

Chris Gammell: That's good. I mean, that's a good scenario, I think. Yeah.

Simone Yach: It's a great scenario, actually.

Chris Gammell: If you're media. So, like, you're kind of moving into the media personality type thing, too, right? I mean, that's.

Simone Yach: Oh, that sounds horrible.

Chris Gammell: It does sound a little bit bad. But, I mean, like, it's kind of true, right?

Simone Yach: Hey, Chris. The day I'm on your show and I introduce myself as a media personality, please.

Chris Gammell: Just hear like, bang.

Simone Yach: Fly over, grab the closest plastic hand and slap me in the face.

Chris Gammell: Okay. Oh, there's a robot for that, I heard.

Simone Yach: I have it right here. It's hanging right here, actually. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Cool.

Simone Yach: It's a classic.

Chris Gammell: Okay. So, well, let's talk about electronics then. Okay. I do want to hear about CES as well, for sure. Okay. So, you were at Lightboobin, but what are you, I mean, I know you've given talks about your, you know, like your creative process and stuff before, but I'm more curious just about what kind of resources are you using when you're trying to figure stuff out?

Simone Yach: So, there's this place called Google that I use a lot. It's a great tool. Swedish word? Well, it's, so I think it's American. No, I actually, I'm not sure. Like, it's not, I mean, the products that I do in the beginning when I started teaching myself about electronics, it was a lot of Adafruit and SparkFun. Also, watched a lot of YouTube videos and stuff like that. But now I feel like I'm still, the challenging parts have more been in mechanical engineering. So, just like, how do I translate this type of movement into what I want? And I feel that in like the electronics part of it, I'm basically just doing the same thing over and over again. I'm just like controlling servo motors or DC motors.

Simone Yach: So, I haven't, I feel like I haven't learned anything, learned anything new about electronics in a long time. Unfortunately, because I like it.

Chris Gammell: I think that's, that's really, that's honest, right? I mean, like, and I, I personally struggle with the mechanical stuff too. I remember when I, when I got my milling machine and I figured out how to couple a servo to like a set or to a ball screw thing. I was just like, oh, that's like, cause you know, you look at servos and you're like, it's just a spinning post. It's like, that's gotta do something.

Simone Yach: How do you do, yeah. How do you do anything?

Chris Gammell: I had no idea what to do with that, how to translate that motion. And that is a pretty big mechanical engineering piece, right?

Simone Yach: Yeah. And seriously, like, I mean, 90% of what I do is figure out how to attach stuff to stuff and how to make stuff move in the way that I want.

Chris Gammell: Right. Right. That makes sense too. Cause I think even like other, I mean, cause it's like, so the, some of the stuff you're doing, you're doing like robots that are in motion, but you also do stuff that's triggered or whatever. Right. But even the trigger is like a, a relay or something like that. Right.

Simone Yach: It's a freaking switch and a microcontroller or whatever. Yeah. Like it's not, it's not, it's, it's pretty straightforward. But I remember that I was, I actually, I'd forgotten about that. I was going to take your course.

Chris Gammell: You were going to take my course. Yeah. Get to it, Simone. Jeez.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Simone Yach: Two hours, no, two years later, two hours later, two years later, I, maybe it's time. You're supposed to do something.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Yach: But I just, I feel like I'm getting more and more into more away from electronics and more into just building things like the, the, the physical apparatus of it. I think that's actually what I enjoy more.

Chris Gammell: Well, and that makes sense though too. Cause it seems like, um, so like there's the robotic piece, right? But like you said, it's a lot of motor control. And unless you're doing like super fine motor control, even the super fine motor control is like, you know, PWM. Okay. And then.

Simone Yach: You don't, you don't need that much. It's pretty straightforward.

Chris Gammell: Well, no, I mean like if you did like a control system, then it would be, you know, fancy, but that would be actually be on the software side too. So motor drivers are pretty similar, right?

Simone Yach: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's not right. I mean, but I was, I was, when I were, when I was working at Punch Through, I did a little bit of border laid out and I felt extremely cool.

Chris Gammell: Oh yeah?

Simone Yach: For doing it. Yeah. I did a little H bridge motor controller.

Chris Gammell: Nice.

Simone Yach: For, for the light blue beam that just like fit on the, on the.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Cause that's like probably what, like an inch and a half by like an inch across or something like that. Tiny. Yeah. It's not very big.

Simone Yach: Yeah. It was tiny. Um, and that was, it was a lot of fun. It was just like laying a little puzzle, but I haven't done that anymore. And now it's like, I'm always so pressed for time.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Right.

Simone Yach: I feel that I don't really. It's funny because it's, it started as a learning project for me building these projects, um, or in, in, in these, in these robots. And now it's like, I don't have time to actually stop and learn in some way. I mean, I'm always learning when, when I'm building stuff and I'm, I'm learning about new tools, but it's not like I feel that I can kind of pause and dwell on something in the same way that I could do before.

Chris Gammell: No, that's, that's a, that's a very common, uh, feeling. I think, I mean, at least, so I felt it at least, and I've talked to Dave about that before too, where it's just, you're, you're in the middle of it. Right. You don't. Yeah. And I've even, uh, oh, people that work at like, um, uh, consulting agencies that I've worked with in the past where it's just like a grindhouse. They're just like, yeah, I don't care. I don't care about, basically what they try and do is they find, try and find a circuit in, in their past they've already used and they just copy paste it. Right. Yeah. Like, oh, don't you want to like play with it and, you know, try out these different things? They're like, no, this thing works. Get it out the door. I don't care. It'll break on its own, you know? And that's, that's such a big piece.

Simone Yach: Yeah. I just want to get home at five.

Chris Gammell: No. Oh no, no. Those, those folks are getting home at nine, you know, but it's just, they're so overworked that it's like, yeah, it's crazy.

Simone Yach: No, it's, it's, it's tricky. And I think it's tricky managing that because I, I think it's so awesome, like important also to kind of let yourself spend time on learning something and, and kind of make yourself that time because it's really like long-term you're gaining a lot. Uh, and it's such an empowering thing, empowering thing, learning something new, but it's, I mean, especially if you're, you have like an uploading schedule haunting you or like constant deadlines. Uh, it's, um, yeah, it's, it's tricky to kind of get the piece required to, to learn.

Chris Gammell: Mm-hmm. Well, so you mentioned mechanical stuff. What are you, what are you, what are you doing in that realm these days?

Simone Yach: I mean, it's, it's, it's just, uh, a lot of, I mean, right now, when is this going to go up?

Chris Gammell: We're live right now, Simone.

Simone Yach: Really?

Speaker ?: No.

Chris Gammell: That would be great, right? Who would be doing that? I don't know who would be.

Simone Yach: Um, it's, it's always, you get like a little bit extra nervous when you're doing something live. And I felt that I'm, I don't, I don't have that like extra like, cause you're kind of, if I, if I accidentally say something horrible, then we're going to have the ability to cut it out.

Chris Gammell: Maybe.

Simone Yach: So I can't say horrible things.

Chris Gammell: That's great.

Simone Yach: That's good to know. Um, but I am going on tomorrow.

Chris Gammell: Sorry. Tomorrow.

Simone Yach: Going on tomorrow. Okay. But then you might beat me to it, but I am, I'm working on a beer robot. So like a beer serving robot. Okay. Uh, and it's out of control. Oh my God. It's, it's like, it terrifies me actually. And I don't say about this about every project I do, but, um,

Chris Gammell: Yeah, definitely a nice one. That one did it for me.

Simone Yach: Yeah. But that one was still kind of contained. This one is, so I have, uh, I've, I've started, uh, I got these, uh, kit from a company called Vex robotics. So they sent me a bunch of their parts and I've just been playing around with it. And I have a little, um, like joystick controller to control these servo motors and this, this little thing I built. And it's so fast. It constantly smashes into itself. And it just, I mean, it just looks like it's throwing a tantrum. It's like the drunkest beer serving robot I've ever seen. And I'm going to film it tomorrow. And my, I know my house is going to reek of beer for weeks.

Chris Gammell: Oh, okay. I'm looking at this now. It kind of looks like, uh, do you ever used to do connects?

Simone Yach: What was that?

Chris Gammell: Connects. It was, uh.

Simone Yach: Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. It's similar to connects. So I've been using before I've been using, uh, actobotics. Oh yeah. Yeah. I know that. From Servo City. Yeah. Which I, they're like a little bit sturdier. Also super expensive.

Chris Gammell: Metal or no? Is that metal?

Simone Yach: So it's all aluminum. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Oh, that's right. That's what you, yeah. Like that truss stuff that you use on the, uh, the knife cutting robot and other. Yeah.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really, it's really nice to work with. I'm going more and more into like fabricating my own parts because that's what I think is fun. Yeah. But, um, it just makes it, it's nice for like, uh, motor mounts and stuff like that. Right. Because I think those are hard to do very, like make very stable. But Vixer Robotics is another version of that. And, uh, yeah, I've just been trying it out.

Speaker ?: Hmm.

Chris Gammell: No, that's good too. And then, you know, it kind of, it's not, I mean, I know it connects as a thing, but like I used to do, um, uh, crap. What's it called? Uh, Erector Set.

Simone Yach: Oh, you said crap, Chris. You watch yourself, young man.

Chris Gammell: Sorry.

Simone Yach: We got a wild one over here.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Uh, no, yeah. So like just the, but the movable, so like you're talking about, right? Like with the, the movable pieces where it's basically just, uh, like pilot holes everywhere and then you can kind of move stuff around and screw it in as needed. That's really nice because it's when I was doing machining stuff, cutting a single hole was hard enough. It was, if it was misplaced and it's like, well, shit, I gotta redo this. You know? It's like, and so this is, this is good because it's already kind of pre-done. And then you can screw it in.

Simone Yach: It's, it's, it's really hard. Or I mean, it's, it's nice for like early prototypes as well because it's hard to gauge proportions and it makes iterating really easily when you can just move stuff around. Right. But, um, yeah, I, I like it. And like usually, I mean, I, I barely get past first prototype because as soon as I get it working, I need to, I have to film it and publish it.

Chris Gammell: It's, well, you're not going to be making, I mean, if, are there any of your robots that you think would actually sell? Even if they've, even if they've already had infomercials made for them?

Simone Yach: What do you think, Chris? I mean, it depends on the context.

Chris Gammell: I don't think so.

Simone Yach: It's a dumb thing that I've been working on and that I still haven't. What?

Chris Gammell: You're going to sell one of those? Wait.

Simone Yach: Don't, don't, don't give me that sound. That voice. You're going to sell one of those? Really? One of those? No, but what I'm working on is maker kits.

Chris Gammell: Oh, cool.

Simone Yach: And it's still like, I've been trying to get it going for like a year, but I'm just not, um, I've been wanting to make like miniature versions of the projects that I have. Oh, that's a good idea. And sell those as maker kits. Yeah. So, um, that like, I, I think, I think would work. So I work, but I mean, I think it would probably mainly be for people who already follow me and who think it's a fun thing because of that. And I, I'm not sure if it would be like Christmas present, 2017.

Chris Gammell: Like a popcorn helmet. People open up the presses and say, what?

Simone Yach: What am I supposed to slap this with?

Chris Gammell: Slap this? Yeah. So, um. There was a sudden spike this year in rubber hand output from, from Shenzhen, China. Yeah.

Simone Yach: So they'll make for like interesting doctor's appointment.

Chris Gammell: Yes. And that's a good idea though. I think, I think that, um, I mean, that's kind of like, I mean, I guess they don't really have the co-brand video stuff, but like, like Thinky. Right. I mean, Thinky has like these quirky, not super like usable products, but they're fun and people definitely buy them. You know, like Thinky subsists on that. And I think that actually is a good revenue model for, um, for someone like yourself.

Simone Yach: Yeah, I think so. But hardware development is a pain in the butt. But, oh my God.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. It is a daunting. Welcome to the Amp Hour.

Simone Yach: Welcome to the Amp Hour. Yeah. Thanks for listening. No, but it's such a daunting process and we're kind of like dabbling into it. But, um.

Chris Gammell: What are you doing for that? I mean, so you're like, you're trying to find sources and vendors and stuff or what?

Simone Yach: No, no. I've just kind of, uh, I've been working on, on it from, from different angles. But, um, it's like what I've realized is that if I'm going to do this, I'm not going to be able to run it myself because.

Chris Gammell: Well, yeah, that's what I was going to ask too. Because I want. So, first off, are you, are you willing to give up that control? Because I'm guessing some people right now are like, ooh, I should write to Simone and be like, I can help you make a kit. And so should they write to you?

Simone Yach: Um, maybe.

Chris Gammell: Let's say no. I mean. Let's say no. Let's be kind and say no.

Simone Yach: Unless you're really, really cool and good. No, it's, uh, I mean, we're, we're not, we're not. Yeah. I'm not sure.

Chris Gammell: I think that's fine. But I think that. It's tricky. But also there are professional organizations you can, you can approach and do the same thing, right?

Simone Yach: But that's the thing. Like I, I'm kind of, I realize I'm like micromanaging my own company because I really want to be able to do it myself and I want it to be exactly the way I want it to be. But I realized that that's not going to work out.

Chris Gammell: You want the highest quality shitty robots that you can get? Yes.

Simone Yach: The finest plastic hands on the market. Actually, you know what? Cause we've been looking into like sourcing these. Have you seen this little hand puppets or like finger puppets that look? Like hands.

Chris Gammell: No.

Simone Yach: So they're like tiny hands that you put on your fingers and then it just creates this like kind of, uh, fractal.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Okay.

Simone Yach: Uh, of, of your hand. Those, I've been trying to source those plastic hands. They're really expensive. Like even if you buy them in bulk, they're super pricey. So I guess this would be the.

Chris Gammell: 10 bucks, 10 bucks. I can't remember.

Simone Yach: I think it was like a dollar to prepare. Oh, that's nothing. It is. It's like when you're working on a bomb, it's like. Like what are you, what's your target? I guess.

Chris Gammell: I mean, that's your, that's the question, right? I mean, like what?

Simone Yach: I mean, I am going to sell them for 200 bucks a piece, but no, I'm just kidding.

Chris Gammell: No, I mean, you could like, that's the thing though. Like you could, I think this is, this is a really relevant conversation here though. Like it's like, okay, so you're trying to hit a bomb price of like a hundred bucks, right? But I would probably think some people, let's say.

Simone Yach: I couldn't do that. I would feel horrible if I sold.

Chris Gammell: Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say, this is the finest, if you'll excuse the term gag gift out there, right? Gag gift slash learning opportunity.

Simone Yach: Gag gift?

Chris Gammell: Gag, yeah. Gag gift.

Simone Yach: Oh, that sounds like something completely different.

Chris Gammell: That's like a thing that people say.

Simone Yach: Oh, really? I'm sorry. I'm out. I'm Swedish. I don't know those things. So Swedish. I don't know those things.

Chris Gammell: I did actually, I looked up before how to say welcome to the Amp Hour. It was like, Välkommen. Välkommen. Välkommen. Yeah. Something like that.

Simone Yach: Yeah, I know. You're doing great.

Chris Gammell: Thank you. You're doing great.

Simone Yach: Thanks for looking that up.

Chris Gammell: That's it.

Simone Yach: Putting an effort.

Chris Gammell: I will say as well that the first time that I met Simone, I was like, there's no way you're Swedish. Because you don't sound Swedish. You told me, you've mentioned this before too. You watch a lot of Friends or something like that, right?

Simone Yach: Yeah. I'm not sure. But I do. Like, I realize more and more that I am Swedish. Because there, I mean, at first on look, there aren't that many cultural differences. But you do kind of realize that they are. And it's like you always feel, if you live abroad, you really start feeling it.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. And you really miss that. Don't you guys have that like stinky canned fish too?

Simone Yach: So I'm vegetarian. So I don't partake in the stinky canned fish. Stinky canned fish.

Chris Gammell: Whatever that BuzzFeed video I saw of people eating that stinky canned fish, that was disgusting. Yeah.

Simone Yach: It smells horrible. I wouldn't. No. I don't do that. But no, it's not. I mean, I really like living in the States. And in some ways, I feel more at home here than I do back in Sweden. But there are definitely, I mean, it depends. Like in some areas, like some areas I'm really comfortable in speaking in English or in English or about in English. But in some, it's just like my vocabulary just falls flat. Doctor's appointments are really interesting. I'm like, this thing does this thing. And they're like, what? Because like I never learned that terminology. You don't really know that.

Chris Gammell: I think that's true in any culture of like even friends I have that grew up speaking Mandarin. And they like work on electronics. And they're like, I don't know how to say that thing. You know, like it's like, and that's why like, have you seen Bunny's electronics guidebook thing?

Simone Yach: Nope.

Chris Gammell: It's like a guide to Shenzhen. But it's got like all of the words in Mandarin in the book. Okay. Just for people like me. Yeah. That have no idea, but also people that, you know, speak the language but can't, don't know the nomenclature, right?

Simone Yach: But it is. It's tricky. I mean, there are some, sometimes I just get very frustrated because I can't express myself. And I feel like, you know, like babies when they cry for no reason because you can just tell that they're frustrated. That's what I feel like.

Chris Gammell: Yep. Yep. Okay. So gag gift is just like something you'd buy for a friend as a joke.

Simone Yach: Okay. Gag gift. Oh, yeah. Gag gift. Yeah. As a gag gift.

Chris Gammell: Right. So I would think like a hundred bucks as like a ceiling. So let's say a hundred bucks.

Simone Yach: There is no way that I'd want to sell stuff. Like I feel so bad about taking money from people. Like I started a Patreon and I feel horrible even about that because it's like this is money from real people.

Chris Gammell: People want to support you, you know? Like that's the, yeah, yes it is. That's where it comes from.

Simone Yach: Very heartwarming and comforting. But it's something different because like when you're taking money from a company, taking money, when you're robbing a company, like when you're getting money from a company, it's like a company is just like this unsentient loop of lump of like, I don't even know.

Chris Gammell: Obviously you've not been in the U.S. long enough, Simone. Corporations are people. Anyways.

Simone Yach: I don't know, but it's different. It's like not, it's not like somebody giving up their like coffee money.

Chris Gammell: It's less personal, right? Yeah, it's less personal. You don't imagine them going to their kids and being like, no presents. I'm a college friend. I had to pay Simone.

Simone Yach: Yes. I had to buy a shitty pussy grabs back machine. Daddy had to invest.

Speaker ?: Right.

Chris Gammell: Okay, so how about 50 bucks? So 50 bucks, but that means that you have to get a $10 bomb. So I guess in that case then a dollar or two for a little rubber hand would be.

Simone Yach: For little rubber hands is, yeah. I guess so. I mean, I'd probably go around $40 to $50 is what I'd go for.

Chris Gammell: I see. I think the harder thing is that like, so a lot of the stuff that you do. So like, okay, so to frame it for people too, like a lot of the stuff that you're doing is using prototyping materials, right? So the, that, that grabs back machine is that used like a mousetrap, didn't it?

Simone Yach: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Like you wouldn't use, you wouldn't sell someone a mousetrap. You'd sell them some kind of like, not bespoke, but like some customized module, like a spring loaded module.

Simone Yach: So the pussy grabs back machine, yeah, I was using a mousetrap. And then I had to get a plastic hand on short notice and I was in Germany. So obviously there was like a sex store. So it's actually, it was like a fisting hand. Oh God. And then the way, I'm sorry.

Chris Gammell: I think, I think you told me that. Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Yach: Well, we're going to flag this video, right? Or this, this podcast. Yes.

Chris Gammell: We said at the beginning. We said at the beginning.

Simone Yach: We said, yeah, we, we probably disclaimed this. So it was a fisting hand.

Chris Gammell: I'll go back at the front and be like, no, really, you should, you should hear what Simone's about to say.

Simone Yach: But the way I strapped it to my hips was I got like a strap on harness.

Chris Gammell: Oh my goodness.

Simone Yach: So I think the bomb for that one was off the charts because those parts were really expensive. All company expense. I still wonder what my accountant is going to say about it. But I mean, I did use it for work. So.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. But anyway, yeah. So you would. Am I making you uncomfortable, Chris? I think the point you're making is still, is still valid though. Like you would not, you would not like, so like if I, if I'm prototyping with like an Arduino board, right? I, I wouldn't then go spec a bomb with a full blown Arduino, right? Yeah. Maybe use an AppMega328, maybe go rework it for something else. Yeah. I think it's the same kind of thing where you, you eventually cost optimize those things, even though it's not the same kind of parts you're talking about here, but like you would go and source other things.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, and it's always the stuff of like, are you going to get custom parts? Are you going to make molds for them? Right. And then suddenly you're looking at, you have to go on a much bigger scale to actually make it viable. So. Right.

Chris Gammell: Have you looked at the retailing piece too? Like, so like, so like, I think about like you think geek, right? They are a much bigger operation than I would expect, but I imagine like selling into that also would be, you know, you gotta have probably like deliver like 500 kits at a time kind of thing.

Simone Yach: Yeah. And you're giving up a lot of control and.

Chris Gammell: Oh, that's true.

Simone Yach: Yeah. I'm not sure it's, and there's like so much, it's something, I mean, we're still kind of working on it, but it's also something that I partly put on hold because there's just a lot of stuff going on and yeah, it's, it's hard to, to prioritize that right now, but it's sad because like, I really want, like, I really want a mini applause machine for my desk.

Chris Gammell: Oh, that's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Like stuff, stuff like that. I think it makes sense and it's, I think it would be such a fun little weird thing. But, but yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. In terms of like the, I mean like the, the build too. So like what was in that build? That was like a, I mean, that was like a motor, but with a switch and I mean,

Simone Yach: if you want to help me with this, Chris, I'm ever finding input. So I've been, oh my God. I, yeah, I've been hitting my head against the wall with this one because the way I built the original applause machine was a DC motor and it had an oval cam and a pair of tongs that I put a spring between. So they kind of collapsed because you want that, like you could attach it directly to, for example, a servomotor and, and, and, and it's servomotor, um, horn. No. What do you say? The servomotor shaft, whatever. Uh, but then you're not going to get that collapsing clap. Yeah. And that's like the payoff of it. So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's actually, this is actually really tricky.

Chris Gammell: We've had some people on before. So like, uh, Todd Bailey, we've had on a long time ago. He was in toy design and I didn't realize that he used to live here in Chicago. Like there is a, uh, I think Mattel is based out here, but some, or someone's like that.

Simone Yach: Those are the ones who do Barbie, right? Or make Barbie. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: They do, they like, there's like these toy conglomerates basically. And who else? So Jerry did toy design. Uh, Alicia did toy design. And I'm always really impressed with that because they, they kind of distill the, they do the same thing all the time where they, they take some prototype and then they distill it down to like, all right, what is the actual motion that we want to replicate? Right. So in that case, it would be like a collapsing spring, like you're talking about. And then they just cost us optimize the shit out of it where it, you know, you don't even, you don't, obviously you wouldn't be using tongs or strap on harness. Um, no, no, no, no tongs, no strap on harnesses.

Simone Yach: They're all too expensive.

Chris Gammell: Right. Exactly. And, and like that is, but that is like the ultimate in cost reduction because whatever you save there, it just goes straight to the bottom line basically.

Simone Yach: Yeah. But, and that's a tricky thing because they have scale on their side. Like they're going on such a big scale that they can do custom parts, but it's really hard for somebody. Cause it's also like, it's hard, especially starting to do hardware stuff or, or like, uh, actually launching a product because I have no, I don't really know what the interest would be. I don't know who would actually buy it. It might be that like 30 people buy it and five of them are my family members or it might be that 30,000 people buy it. And, and it's just such a different, it's just a really hard thing to gauge.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Well, I mean, there are mechanisms for that now though. Like there's Kickstarter, stuff like that.

Simone Yach: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: I think it's interesting. What I would probably do in that scenario, since we're, we're brainstorming on this is I would see if I could, so like, so you use, you use mostly servos you said? Yes. So I would use like a, the cheapest piece of crap brush DC motor and see if I can get that to work because that's going to obviously be one of the cheapest, like that's what's in all the toys as well. Like basically maybe even repurpose, like take a toy that uses a bunch of motors, rip it apart and then repurpose those because you know, those are going to be dirt cheap as well. And if you can get that to work and you use that as your prototyping material, then

Simone Yach: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: That would be really interesting.

Simone Yach: Yeah, that's true. That might be a good thing. Because like what I found is also that the most of the, the smaller and cheaper DC motors are really high RPM. Oh really? Because they're used for, yeah, they're, they're used for like model airplanes and stuff like that. So it's hard to find, because I'm kind of looking for something that's around 300 RPM. And it's really hard to find those at such a small scale. Those are usually a lot bigger.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Well, or you could go, you know, make some gears, right?

Simone Yach: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Have you ever seen that? I think I've talked about it on the show before, but it was the Gorilla Guide to Machining.

Simone Yach: No.

Chris Gammell: Oh my God. What have I missed? Tell me. It is fantastic. So it's this guy, I forget his name. His, he goes by Lcam Tuf, L-C-A-M-T-U-F. Which is a great name. I don't know what the hell it means. Parenthesis. I know he's, yeah, I know he's from Poland and I know he now works at Google, but that is the document that got me, that literally that document is why I immediately went out and bought a milling machine. And it was so dumb that I did that, but.

Simone Yach: Why was it dumb?

Chris Gammell: Well, I didn't know how to machine anything and I didn't have anyone to show me how. So you can see all my old videos of me trying to machine stuff very poorly.

Simone Yach: How much did you spend on this milling machine?

Chris Gammell: About two grand. Oh. Oh. Yeah.

Simone Yach: Company expense? Yeah. What do you know? Okay. Yeah. Well, then you're all good. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: And it really was a good learning experience, but.

Simone Yach: A good learning experience on how to not do things?

Chris Gammell: Well, yeah.

Simone Yach: The learning experience is that I shouldn't buy really expensive tools that I don't know how to use.

Chris Gammell: No, that's not the learning experience. The learning experience is once you buy those tools that I don't know how to use, ask someone. Oh, nice.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. But the other interesting thing there is he talks about, so he's comparing like machining versus 3D printing. And he does, so he machines out this positive mold. And then he pours a negative mold with silicone. And then he pours urethane into that. And he does prototyping of these gears in that. And he builds these beautiful, tiny, what are they called? Planetary gear sets. Like super tiny that fit on top of a little DC motor. So I will send you that link. It is fantastic.

Simone Yach: Really cool.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Simone Yach: Really cool. Okay. I'm going to buy a milling machine right now.

Chris Gammell: You don't need to buy them. So that's what we should move into. So you have a workshop now, but you also work at Tested. So don't you get to hang out with your buddy?

Simone Yach: And I do. Yeah. I have like, I'm working on, I've been, so I just moved into a new apartment and that I actually, so before I've just been subleasing, but now for my first time, for the first time I'm renting my own apartment. Okay. So I've actually been, I've been working on getting myself a proper workshop. Okay. So I do have a fair amount of tools now, but I definitely am not on par with Adam because who the fuck is?

Chris Gammell: Right. Yeah. So his workshops are a little bit out of control.

Simone Yach: His workshop is so in control.

Chris Gammell: Oh, in control. Well, yeah.

Simone Yach: It is out of control how in control it is. How about this? It is out of, it is definitely out of this world. So, um, yeah. And he's super nice about it. Like I can, I can go in and use his tools and I, I always, it's like, it's, it's, it's nice when you're lacking a certain screw.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Right.

Simone Yach: And you're like, Oh my God, I could order this and take me three days to get it.

Chris Gammell: Right.

Simone Yach: Or I could just like bike to Adam's shop. Yep. That is really nice. Yeah. So, uh, so, so, so, so that's nice. And he's really nice about like showing me how to, how to use the tools he has as well. Um, but I haven't, I haven't been, I did mill a little bit with my friend Marcos. Yeah. Because I did like a side table that looked like a thread spool and we milled a needle for it. So machined and milled a needle, like a really, it's like a three foot needle.

Chris Gammell: Holy crap. Is it out of, is it metal or is it wood?

Simone Yach: Aluminum. So it made it out of a solid aluminum rod. Yeah. So it did mill a little bit then, but otherwise I have very little experience. It takes such a long time and it takes a lot of, requires a lot of patience and precision. And I lack both those things.

Chris Gammell: I, I know how that goes. Um, yeah. Wait, so you, you were doing manual machining though, or are you doing CNC?

Simone Yach: We were doing manual. Yeah. Okay.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. So that's, so that's another thing that I struggled with is even though, uh, so I should, I should call out, uh, how sternly, uh, former guest Philip Frieden, uh, warned me not to do what I did. He's like, you know what, Chris, you should really go take a class on manual machining at your, you know, college. You should learn about work holding and you should learn about how to, you know, get the feel for the mill and like all the things that you probably dealt with. Right. You understand how that goes.

Simone Yach: You're like, whatever. I'm a smart person. I don't need that.

Chris Gammell: Right. I was like, I have the internet, Philip, right?

Simone Yach: I have this little thing called the internet.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Leave me alone. I have safety glasses, Philip. And, uh, yeah, that, that would, I was wrong.

Simone Yach: What happened? What did you do? What did you break?

Chris Gammell: Uh, everything. Uh, yeah, no, basically I, um, you know, I, I had some very kind YouTuber comments, uh, including Mr. Ben Krasnow.

Simone Yach: Found's not so kind.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. They, well, most of them were not, but Ben was very kind. And, uh, you know, they pointed out what I was doing wrong and feeds and speeds and all that stuff, because that's the thing. Like, I didn't really understand, uh, the feel of like when you put a milling bit at a certain, you know, spindle RPM at a certain speed going through metal, it just can't remove material fast enough. And when I can't remove material fast enough, it's like, I'm going to snap a bit right now. Yeah. Which is really bad. So, um, so if you have someone that you're working with on that stuff, that's fantastic.

Simone Yach: Yeah. No, I think it's nice. I've, I've really, like the best way to learn is to have somebody, like know somebody who knows it. And then you can just build something together and you learn from them as you're, as, as you're making something. Right. No, that's good. I think that's, it's like the most enjoyable way to learn.

Chris Gammell: There's, uh, have you ever heard of the concept beginner's mind?

Simone Yach: No. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: So it basically, it's like, um, the idea is someone like you're, so like Adam, right? He, he's been doing machining for 20, 30 years, whatever. And we're talking about Adam Savage as well. If people don't know, like Simone hangs out with Mythbusters, Adam Savage. That's very cool. Uh, cause she works for him.

Simone Yach: Uh, and, uh, I work with him, but I work for him.

Speaker ?: I'm sorry.

Chris Gammell: I'm sorry. I didn't know. I thought he, I thought he, it says Adam Savage tested. I thought he was on, I thought he owned the place. Sorry.

Simone Yach: Um, I don't know why I felt that that was important. An important difference. He's not, he just doesn't, he doesn't feel like a boss in any way. Gotcha.

Chris Gammell: Okay. Right. Yeah. Okay.

Simone Yach: Um, beginner's mind.

Chris Gammell: Beginner's mind. So the idea is that, uh, it's, it's almost always impossible to understand the feeling that a beginner has when they're entering new field. Right. So like, uh, you know, like you, so in machining, right. It's like, oh, well, of course you would work, do the work holding like that. And, you know, like that's what an expert would say. And then the beginner says, what is work holding? Uh, you know, it's like, it's like, well, you don't even have the terminology. You don't have anything there. And it's, it's so difficult to understand that stuff. Beginner's mind then is attempting to force yourself back into that perspective.

Simone Yach: It is, it's such a, because like now it's, it's also, I think that's, uh, I mean, we talked about earlier that I'm talking about that the electronic stuff I do now is really trivial, but like two years ago, I did not think that it was trivial.

Chris Gammell: Right.

Simone Yach: And like, I remember some of the mistakes I was making in the beginning. Like I remember I had a shield for my Arduino, my first Arduino, and I couldn't get it working. And I was like troubleshooting and troubleshooting and troubleshooting. And I, uh, I had a friend who was a really good hardware hacker. And I was like, could you please come over to my place? I'll treat you to dinner. You can look at this project and tell me what's wrong. And she, she came over and 20 seconds, right? Not even that. She was like, Simone, you know, that you need to solder the headers to the shield, right? Oh yeah. Because all I done is like, I just stacked it. I basically, I just put it on top. Right. It is like put the, the, the, the headers through the through hole. And I was like, why is it not working? It's not, there's something wrong with it. I should return it. And like, it's just that. And like now to me, that's so laughable and far out, but like just then it was, it was a really difficult thing for me to understand that I had to solder the headers to the shield.

Chris Gammell: I think that's, I, I, I know I laughed at that, but like, honestly, I've had that exact, you know, that happens to me a lot in programming. And, uh, I've talked to people who sell kits. They say they get returned kits for the same thing where it's like, people don't, they just don't get it, you know, at the beginning. And it's just like, you can't fall for someone for that. It's just, it's just, it's so new. It's so foreign, you know? Yeah. I don't.

Simone Yach: But it's also, but then also you have like, when you're a beginner, you have the luxury of being so amazed of actually making it work. We're so amazed of learning a new thing. Like for tested, we, we, we, we shoot these like, um, what is it? Like favorite things of a year. So now I shot like a video of my favorite tools of 2016 or my favorite things. And I talked about pop rivets, which to me was the really big revelation. Like when I found pop rivets and I was like, this really helps me attach stuff to stuff. And people in the comments were like tearing me a new one because they were like, really pop rivets? This technique has been here for like 50 years. I remember I used pop rivets first time when I was 15. And I was just really like these people have completely forgotten what it felt like when you first discovered it. Right. And how, how great it was and how, how big it felt. So it's just that, I mean, it's also something beautiful about like getting introduced to something new and just being like, wow, I actually know how to use this thing or wow, I can actually do this stuff now.

Chris Gammell: No, that's a great point. I think that's, that's, that's spot. And it honestly, that also helps encapsulate the problem with the internet. It's just, especially the internet comments where it's like, you have no perspective on, it's just a new thing, you know, like it's just, you know, some people don't, I don't know. Internet commenters.

Simone Yach: I'm like, okay. Like, I think I've, my, my internet comments have actually, my internet comment experience has actually been pretty great. And it's like, I mean, I of course have like a lot of people correcting me and rightly so. And that's fine. It's just like when you get corrected 200 times on the same thing, that's when it's like,

Chris Gammell: I got that one too. Really? Yeah. Yeah. My machining videos actually. Yeah. Maybe 20 times, but yeah.

Simone Yach: You're going to break off your drill or your bed. Yeah. It's about to go. It's about to go. There it goes. Yeah. It's good. Oh, I so saw that coming.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Simone Yach: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Well, so what do you, I mean, what do you think about that? What are you excited about in the future? What are you, what are you, what are you looking to learn mechanically then? So pop rivets, I actually don't know what those are. Pop rivets.

Simone Yach: Pop rivets. Pop rivets, blue, and white. Oh, thanks for saying that you don't know what that is.

Chris Gammell: I don't know. So what do you, what do you connect what to what?

Simone Yach: You connect anything to any, mainly like a flat metal surfaces, but you can probably do pretty much anything to it.

Chris Gammell: You connect your dog to your grandmother. Yeah.

Simone Yach: You can connect plastic hands to your crotch. Always with that.

Chris Gammell: Always with that, Simone.

Simone Yach: It's so funny. Yeah. You're missing out, Chris. It's, I, I'm horrible at explaining what it does, but basically you drill a hole and you put a little, just Google it.

Chris Gammell: Okay. It's like, but it's like a metal, like thing.

Simone Yach: It's like a little metal knob. You put it through the hole. A metal cylinder that deforms or something? It's just off the chart here. It was actually when we were shooting the video for the, for, for Tesla, when I was talking about pop rivets, my producer was like, Simone, sorry, we're going to have to cut this out because like, it was just so much sexual innuendo of like, I was like, you just put this little knob through the hole and then you pull it in. And then it's like, yeah, I'm sorry. You were going to flag and stop some, right? Yeah. But, but, but no, pop rivets are good. What, what, where were we going? We're going to say something. We had a point.

Chris Gammell: Uh, oh, what are you excited about for, uh, what are you looking to learn for new mechanical tech stuff?

Simone Yach: Um, so I am, I'm excited of so like about so many things. I feel like I'm running out of excitement. It's, it's, I'm in a constant state of excitement because.

Chris Gammell: Start with one.

Simone Yach: Life has just been really fun recently.

Chris Gammell: Oh yeah, I believe it.

Simone Yach: But mostly it's, uh, I'm going to start doing more space related stuff.

Chris Gammell: Ooh, space. Yeah.

Simone Yach: So that is going to be a lot of fun. I can't wait. I'm actually starting a new project next week. That is, that I haven't been able to tell anyone about, uh, and that I'm going to spend a month on. So I'm really, really pumped about that. That's going to be a lot of fun. But as for new skills, I got, I want to get more into, I feel like I'm a little bit late on it, but, um, I want to get more into 3d printers and actually get, uh, comfortable with, uh, with 3d modeling.

Chris Gammell: Yeah, that is. Yeah. You called, you called it right from the beginning there. It's the, it's the modeling. I like, I, the printers are inconsequential to me these days, you know, like they're

Simone Yach: like, Oh, yeah, but it's the model. I just don't feel comfortable with it or it's just always like an awkward process of like, Oh wow. I just zoomed out a lot. Oh wait. How did I pan over here? Yeah. Um, so it's that. And I actually, at CES, I got, I got a new printer. I got a Prusa printer. Prusa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Joe Prusa, the, um, the, um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Yach: Yeah. He tweeted at me and was like, come to our booth and you'll get a printer. And I came up and he was so cool. Like, can we just be friends? Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Him and Ben Shoff know each other pretty well, I think. Oh, cool. From Hackaday. Yep.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I'm, I'm excited to get, get, get into that and actually have like a decent, um, 3d printer. That's going to be fun. That's good. Um, but also I really want to learn how to weld. I've been wanting to learn how to weld for such a long time and I've, it's, it's bound to happen in 2017.

Chris Gammell: So, so we talk about this a lot, but like, what is the project? I think you got to have a project there, right? So maybe something robotics. What do you, what are you thinking?

Simone Yach: I don't know. It, it depends. I have a lot of non-robotic stuff that I want to do for one that I've been thinking about for a bit and that I've been, or I've had this idea for like a year. Um, I just haven't gotten to it, but that's not robotic, but I want to make, you know, like these little bouncy chairs that kids have that's kind of in this frame and the, and it's on wheels and they can kind of bounce around.

Chris Gammell: Oh, like for like toddlers you're saying? Like where they. For toddlers. Yeah. I know what you mean. Yep.

Simone Yach: So I want to make that, but I want to make a big corporate version of it. It's like, I just want to have like a.

Chris Gammell: It's a fun idea. Yeah. I like that.

Simone Yach: Old white dude sit in it and I want him to have like this little.

Chris Gammell: In his underwear, right?

Simone Yach: In his, no, no, no, no. He's going to be like in full office mode. I wanted to have like almost like a marble countertop, like maybe not marble, but like that kind of style, like, like some like dark wood. And I want him to have like a little business card flip deck or whatever. And like maybe a little, I don't know, like a little fax or whatever. And I just, I just want that photo of him sitting in that bouncy chair. And I don't know, maybe do an infomercial. Well, I think that would be a good welding project to do.

Chris Gammell: That's good. I like that. You know, what you should also do is you should also be like buy, buy a, an adult version of this and then like zoom over and have a baby dressed in a business suit as well. Also in a bouncy thing.

Simone Yach: Yeah. That's great.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Simone Yach: No, no, no. It's, it's, it's, it's, I think maybe that will be my project or like my first product that I actually take to market. I mean, I bet it's perfect for like thigh strength or something. It's like, it's like a good cardio. Maybe this can become a fad.

Chris Gammell: I would actually, so what I would do is I would hire like a, a new agey, you know, pseudoscience person and be like bouncing in a bounce chair in Simone's bounce chair increases, uh, uh, what's, uh, shit. What's that system called?

Simone Yach: The, uh, we got to work on it a little bit. Yeah. Whoa, whoa. You know what?

Chris Gammell: We'll brainstorm after this.

Simone Yach: Makes your blood pump.

Chris Gammell: Yes.

Simone Yach: No, I think, but the, the thing. It has great health benefits.

Chris Gammell: Right. Yes.

Simone Yach: I, I would, I would bet my butt on that. I mean, it's, it's probably as opposed to like sitting in a normal chair, it's probably freaking great. And you're also going to look great.

Chris Gammell: It could be like the news thing instead of, uh, instead of like a treadmill desk or a.

Simone Yach: Yeah. A treadmill desk or just like one of these balls that people sit on, like a Pilates ball, just to have a little bouncy chair. I like it. And I can just like picture you like it being on wheels and bouncing away to like the little water station or.

Chris Gammell: You're like bouncing into the conference room.

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: To the coffee machine.

Simone Yach: Your copying machine. Yeah. I think it would be great. I like it. It's a good, uh, it would be a great infomercial. That's what I'm thinking.

Chris Gammell: I like it.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Okay.

Chris Gammell: So, uh, welding. That's good. Um, what, uh, what did you see at CES? I guess we didn't really get back to that. So. Oh gosh. You were at CES.

Simone Yach: I was at CES.

Chris Gammell: What, what did you see there?

Simone Yach: I can't remember.

Chris Gammell: We, I had posted on our subreddit, excuse me, um, the shitty, uh, internet, internet of shit posted a bunch of, uh, like a tweet, Twitter moments thing of like all the ridiculous things that they saw and posted. Did you see any internet connected? Were they there? I think so.

Simone Yach: Oh, really? Yeah. Okay.

Chris Gammell: I can send you a link real quick if you want to, if you want to go through it together.

Simone Yach: I don't know. No, we're fine. But, uh, I, uh, I mean, I, I think like what I mainly complained about was all the freaking booth babes. Cause like, oh my God. Really? Yeah. It's, they're still doing it. Still going strong. Um, but I can't like, it was so much stuff there and I was, I wasn't there for that long.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. You like flew in last minute, right?

Simone Yach: I flew in last minute. Yeah. And, um, but I did go out in Las Vegas and I didn't get a lead into a club because I was wearing the wrong shoes and also I lost my credit card. Okay. So it was overall a good one.

Chris Gammell: It was a Vegas experience. Yeah. I, I have planned not to go back to Vegas unless I have to go for a conference. I, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I went to DEF CON a couple of years ago and that was interesting enough. And I would go back just to see the, you know, like there's like the, um, hardware hacking village now, like Osman's always there and Alvaro's there. And I think, I mean, Sammy gives talks, I think these days too. So good people, of course.

Simone Yach: There's technology in your tea. I'm sorry. I'm looking at this. Well, see, it sent me. Oh, okay.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Simone Yach: This is actually pretty great.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. And, and, but so like, so like DEF CON would be a reason to go back, but something like this, I just can't like, I would just get angry the whole time. I would be angry the entire, like if I walked up and I saw this ridiculous wireless radiation blocking boxer shorts, I would literally tear down the booth. I would just go nuts. And I would be like, no, that's not cool.

Simone Yach: You would like pull down your pants and be like, these are normal boxes. They're working fine.

Chris Gammell: I don't think, I don't think I would do that, but you know, I would do something extreme and these swearing in the booth.

Simone Yach: No, but that's the thing. Like I, but I, I think that even, even the shittiest product, sure. There's a lot that you're like, really, did we really have to do that? But, but even that, it's like, you're still trying to do something. And I think that that is admirable in itself.

Chris Gammell: You're saying that these companies with these terrible products that they're hawking are.

Simone Yach: I mean, it's like they're, they're at least trying something. Like they're trying to put something new into the world. And I, I, I'm not sure. I just think like.

Chris Gammell: I'm going to have to categorically disagree with you, Simone. I'm sorry. Yeah. I don't.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Okay.

Chris Gammell: Some of these things are so dumb. Connected shoes. Designed in Paris.

Simone Yach: I mean, I, cause I get a lot of criticism, criticism for spending my time on building useless things. And people.

Chris Gammell: Those are meant to be useless. These are meant to be commercially successful. They were just chasing trends. I don't know. And you're not trying to sell them either. Like, at least not yet. We'll find out.

Simone Yach: 2017. That's right.

Chris Gammell: That's the year.

Simone Yach: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: I don't know. I. I didn't say.

Simone Yach: I, I, I mean, I'd rather have people make stuff like boxers that create, protect your crotch against wifi. Radiation.

Chris Gammell: Which is actually not damaging as far as anyone knows. Yeah.

Simone Yach: But isn't it, wasn't it a bunch of things that like their sperm doesn't swim as well?

Chris Gammell: That's what they're saying in this thing. I.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Okay. I haven't. No.

Chris Gammell: Radiation is not. I'm obviously. As far as anyone has tested. I'm going to.

Simone Yach: I'm going to buy this for my dad.

Chris Gammell: That's really awkward. Really awkward. Christmas dad.

Simone Yach: Oh, maybe to my brother. Cause he's more of that. Yeah. I feel like my dad is beyond.

Chris Gammell: Okay. So you didn't see any other.

Simone Yach: You were so happy you brought me on the show. Aren't you Chris? Yeah. I really, I really am. What's the reason it took such a long time for me to keep him on?

Chris Gammell: Only 331 episodes.

Simone Yach: She's a loose gun. Cause I remember we're talking about it even like, uh, before, like right when we started getting to know each other and it just never happened. And I understand why now.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Simone Yach: I'm sorry.

Chris Gammell: I understand now too.

Simone Yach: Made that mistake.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Simone Yach: Oh, sorry. Can I, can I remedy it in any way?

Chris Gammell: Uh, sure. Well, did you see anything else at CES? Okay.

Simone Yach: So I got on track. Did, uh, anything that I liked?

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. Like positive thing. So like, is it just a sea of negativity or is there actually positive stuff there that you saw?

Simone Yach: I did love the Furion. I think that's how it's pronounced. Racing robot.

Chris Gammell: Okay. So is that like one of the drone racings?

Simone Yach: No, it's a giant racing robot. That's like an exoskeleton. So it's, it's a prototype. They haven't, it's not fully functional yet, but basically you climb into it and you lay on your stomach into this harness and it works like an exoskeleton and you can freaking race with it. And it's terrifying and humongous and fucking amazing. Like I just, I just want to, I just want it. So that's crazy. Yeah. So that, that was pretty cool. I think there's a lot, if it can't felt similar to Megabod. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause their whole like ideas that they want to start a giant, um, fighting robot league.

Chris Gammell: Yep.

Simone Yach: Fighting giant robot, whatever. Uh, and Furion is that they want to start a, a racing league for giant robots. And I think that's just like, oh, it's good. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: I like it. That's cool. That's really, yeah. And I mean, that's, I mean, I think that that, that's kind of interesting because those, those kinds of situations where there's, okay. So, so those are going to be popular culture type things or, you know, mass, mass appeal, you know, robots fighting each other has mass appeal. However, in the midst of doing that, right. Uh, you will also get increases in, you know, investment in robotic technology as well. Right. I mean, it's not, it, it moves it outside of just the military sphere. Same, same way as that, like, I'm not a huge NASCAR fan, but I guarantee that the state of auto racing or auto automobile performance has increased because of F1 and NASCAR and everything like that. Right. Where you just get investment based on broad interest. I don't know.

Simone Yach: Yeah. So. Yeah, totally. That's cool.

Chris Gammell: I like that. I saw an interesting, uh, uh, CES or sorry, CES. TechCrunch did a, um, they did their hardware battlefield. I don't know if you saw any of that stuff.

Simone Yach: No.

Chris Gammell: They, um, so they do like a contest for like hardware startups and stuff. And only because we're, we're near that. I'll mention this, but it was interesting because the two winners were both adjacent to the medical field. So the one was, um, uh, the one, the one was, uh, a sock for diabetic patients, but it didn't actually, it wasn't invasive at all. So it just monitors diabetic patients. But then it also like, it was this like subscription service where they just kept selling you socks over time. And so it was like this weird amalgamation of, of businesses of like hardware startup, connected device, also continually sell you device or sell you consumables. I don't know. I thought it was very interesting.

Simone Yach: Yeah. That sounds really cool. It's pretty wild. I feel like, especially, I mean, it feels like for, for medical fields, there's so much, so many products that apply.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Oh yeah. That stuff. I, I, I mean, especially like as the population keeps aging, I think that's a huge, huge field, especially like, so like someone like that doesn't have to actually get, um, FDA testing, which is a big deal.

Simone Yach: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: Okay. So, uh, we've, we've been going for more than an hour, surprisingly, you know, we've talked about rubber hands and various other things. Um, what, uh, where, where, uh, what are you doing for a tested in the near future? People obviously can see you on there. They can see on your channel. Yeah. What's up with tested? What's up with your, I mean, you already mentioned some of your upcoming, video stuff, but.

Simone Yach: We're, we're, we're, we're just like hanging out. I don't know. I feel like an office cat. I just, I just walk in and out. Uh.

Chris Gammell: Norm's like, Simone, get out of my lap. Yeah.

Simone Yach: Uh, so we wouldn't go that far, but they do feed me and, uh, hang out with me. No, it's, it's, it's such a nice thing because like YouTuber life is pretty lonely from time to time. Like otherwise I would just sit at home and build stuff and talk to the camera. So it's, it's really nice to be able to go to tested. So we've got some stuff, um, tested is, um, now getting more and more on verve, which is, uh, this, this platform where you get access to a bunch of different content, uh, generators and, and, uh, channels. Oh, cool. So, uh, been doing a lot of stuff for, for there. So I have a show there called, it might work where I build, um, different things that might or might not work.

Chris Gammell: I actually, I actually didn't know about that.

Simone Yach: No. So, uh, I.

Chris Gammell: So like a regular show?

Simone Yach: Doing that. Yeah. It's like, we do like two episodes a month. Cool. Um, so, so, so I'm, I'm doing a lot of, of, of that stuff, which is, it's really fun.

Chris Gammell: I have to say when I Google, it might work in parentheses, there's a Tobias Fionke, Fionke, uh, clip that comes up on YouTube. So you're, you're in good company. Yeah.

Simone Yach: That's good. I, I'm getting, I have to work on my SEO.

Chris Gammell: I mean, or you have to work on your, uh, you know, your Tobias Fionke impressions, you know?

Simone Yach: Yeah. I could, I could do that. I blew myself. Sorry. The, there's a poor, poor other woman called, uh, who has the same name as me, Simone Yatch. She's like a German water scientist and I've just, yeah, her, or like Google search results have been properly fucked over the last year. I feel kind of sorry for her. I'd be upset.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Simone Yach: Like if somebody named Chris Gammell.

Chris Gammell: There is another, there's two other Chris Gammells. One of them's dead.

Speaker ?: Okay.

Chris Gammell: He used to write about trains. You were doing?

Simone Yach: No?

Chris Gammell: No. Well, not that, uh, not that can be proven, but he used to write about trains and then he mysteriously passed away when a handsome American pushed him in front of a train. Uh, no, he, he was like 85. Uh, and the other guy's an MMA fighter, which is very easy to confuse me with, but few have done it so far. Very easy to filter out. Yeah. Yep. So.

Simone Yach: Hello. Hello?

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're, oh gosh, you're top.

Chris Gammell: Oh yeah.

Simone Yach: You're killing it.

Chris Gammell: Oh yeah. I know.

Simone Yach: Yeah. All front pages. All you.

Chris Gammell: Uh huh.

Simone Yach: Okay. Yeah. Good job.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Well, it's a common name.

Simone Yach: Oh wow. Oh, a photo of you wearing Google Glass.

Chris Gammell: Oh yeah. Classic.

Simone Yach: Really?

Chris Gammell: You didn't know I did that?

Simone Yach: I didn't know that. Oh no. So many photos of you wearing Google Glass. My, oh my God. So much Google Glass. No, my. I'm not sure I want to be your friend anymore.

Chris Gammell: I think I was wearing Google Glass and I met you, Simone. I'm just saying.

Simone Yach: Really?

Chris Gammell: I think so.

Simone Yach: No, I don't, I don't think so. I don't think I'd be your friend then.

Chris Gammell: Simone actually, when I met her, she gave me a CR2032 battery, which is the sign of friendship because my light blue bean had died in transit because apparently I left it on. So.

Simone Yach: Oh, that's, that's beautiful.

Chris Gammell: That's how you make friends. That's. You give people batteries.

Simone Yach: Yeah. No, I need to do that more to make more friends. I need to give more people batteries. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Those, those uncharged like motherfuckers too.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah. I'm having a hard time finding your show.

Simone Yach: Yeah, but it's because it's all behind. It's because it's a paywall. Oh, okay. That's good. I think it's that. Yeah. So it's, it's that suburb is you. I don't know how much it costs, but basically you pay monthly and then you get access to all these different channels content.

Chris Gammell: Oh, interesting.

Simone Yach: Okay. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: When I put in verb video as well, it pulls up bittersweet symphony. So maybe we'll go out on that. Yeah.

Simone Yach: I think that's a sure sign that it's time to call it a night. It's more than an hour. Yeah. It is 930.

Chris Gammell: Yep.

Simone Yach: We're derailing.

Chris Gammell: Yep.

Simone Yach: I hope we produce a decent podcast as number 331.

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Well, thank you for being on the show. Where can people find you online?

Simone Yach: Google shitty robots and you'll find me.

Chris Gammell: Okay. I'll put links in the description as well. Thanks, Simone. We'll talk soon. I'm sure.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me. See ya. See ya. See ya.

Chris Gammell: So the one thing we didn't mention is why you and I started talking right before recording this show. Do you remember why? Obviously. What?

Simone Yach: What? What? No. What? Why?

Chris Gammell: Because I tweeted at Adam about how I met him and I mentioned I knew you.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Right. I met him in a bathroom. That's not. You're just like, this is my shot.

Chris Gammell: Apparently. Yeah.

Simone Yach: This is my shot. Was he nice to you?

Chris Gammell: You know, I think he was weirded out.

Simone Yach: Yeah. In what part of your bathroom visit?

Chris Gammell: It was purely at the. Everything was done. It was like.

Simone Yach: Everything was done.

Chris Gammell: It was like hands were washed, walking out the door kind of thing.

Simone Yach: Yeah.

Chris Gammell: All is on the up and up. Yes. I know the rules. You're not supposed to talk to anyone in the bathroom. That's fine. But it's Adam. Come on. I wanted to say hi. Watch him on TV forever.

Simone Yach: It's usually super approachable. Yeah. Kind.

Chris Gammell: And then the other problem is that I tweeted that it was awkward because I mentioned you. And yeah.

Simone Yach: Yeah. What did he say when you when you mentioned me?

Chris Gammell: That I shouldn't have introduced myself in a bathroom.

Simone Yach: Oh, really?

Speaker ?: Yeah.

Simone Yach: Did he say that?

Chris Gammell: Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Yach: Oh, my God. Adam.

Chris Gammell: Yeah.

Simone Yach: Yeah. He's not wrong.

Chris Gammell: I mean.

Simone Yach: Yeah. Yeah. It's a tricky. But like you got one chance. I don't blame you.

Chris Gammell: Excellent.

Simone Yach: But.

Chris Gammell: You hear that, Adam? Endorsement. Endorsement. Hi, Simone.

Simone Yach: No. But that's nice. No. But I'm happy we did that because I realized that I still haven't been on your podcast. Yeah.

Chris Gammell: 3.31. Yeah.

Simone Yach: And now you just. Yeah. And you just invited me. And like 20 minutes later, we're going at it.

Chris Gammell: Bingo.

Simone Yach: Making a podcast. Yeah. Good stuff.